Wow. I can tell you have been through the same utter frustration that I have in dealing with a narcissist. I fell in love and had a baby with one. I could never have imagined that someone who used to tell me he would love me forever could display such cruelty and utter indifference to my feelings. It is a tough thing to go through. I'm coming out of it now and I feel so much relief in the growing indifference I feel towards the father of my beautiful daughter. I only hope he will not emotionally abuse her as well.
If your daughter's father is a narcissist then it's not going to be easy for either of you. I hope someone out there who has gone through the same thing can share some insights. I'm glad that your are reaching indifference, it will give you clarity.
is there any info out there about how someone could be so hypersensitive about their own feelings but not able to understand our feelings? it's exactly the case when dealing with an MN but it doesn't make sense so wont stick in my head right.
The poor little narcissist has very tender feelings for a variety of reasons... they have the mentality of 2 year olds so they are big babies who consider themselves the centre of the universe. Narcissists are grandiose so they must always have their egos stroked. They really believe they are above us mere mortals. If you fail to puff-up the narcissist's image they will view this as an attack. Narcissists only identify with their image. That means they don't identify with you - they lack empathy. Like 2 year old children, they can't see past their own selfish needs. Would you expect a 2 year old to understand that it's wrong to steal other children's toys, or pull their hair? Two year olds need to be taught these things, but eventually children grow-up and mature and learn that the universe doesn't revolve around them. This maturation process didn't happen with the narcissist. They may be in adult bodies, but they are really children perpetually stuck in the terrible twos. They have the mindset of a child, and the egos of a vengeful God.
You might want to read the post *Malignant Narcissists Get Worse With Age* it breaks down the MN's mindset.
that makes so much sense thank you. if all you are is an image then yeah you have no core, no substance so you can't relate to a real human being. it's like asking a mirror to understand how a human feels, it's impossible. god that's so sick to go through life with no substance, no heart or soul. i never realized that our empathy=heart and soul which equals identity and sense of who we are. also, i always felt that my MN had the maturity of a 2 year old so now i now i wasn't just imagining it!
Another aspect I have noticed is the fact that the Ns "relate" to others as though others are "things" not beings--and this also seems to apply to their 'selves"--to get by they seem to not be human (they do not feel, they do not look within, they don't communicate, they don't relate, they do not grow they do not mature) they are things themselves and for a thing to be ONE UP, it has to be the very best and be above the thing the N is comparing itself to. But since a thing that REQUIRES superiority is really a thing that knows itself to be needy/week/impotent, the N has to be haughty and contemptuous of that other THING that MAKES it feel less than. Basically if I pretend I am the greatest but also really know that I am a helpless infant, YOU are evil because you are self possessed, assertive, centered, calm, mature--therefor I am justified in disdaining you--you deserve it for causing my feelings. That seems to be the basic script ad nauseam---so boring that it hardly warrants indifference.
I feel kind of proud that I did a lot of this instinctively...Oo...When my n-sister would talk to me I would just indifferently look straight ahead sometimes and it would of course warrant a vicious remark from her. But...when you know the " tactics " etc. they don't phase you anymore. That's the way to get a narc...ignore the crap out of them. Doesn't even need practicing, comes naturally after a while. hrhr. You have to be careful to be out of the narc's sphere of influence though.
My narscisistic father is 90 yrs old now and will never change except he is more vulnerable now. Be goodto yourself and lose all hate and resentment and ty to feel sorry for them. Its no fun to be a narcissist and you miss out on so much. You neve realize what you have..isnt that tragic? If you can actually feel sorry for them, you feel better and bitterness eventually goes. Thats a state to wish for!
I find it interesting that Righteous Anger should be subsumed to "feeling sorry for" an MN Parent(s). Additionally, those who grew up under MN abuse and respond with honesty and integrity regarding their feelings are then slapped with the labels "hate," "resentment," and "bitter." I can absolutely assure you, my MN "mother" even in her elderly years parasitically expropriated every last bit of "feel sorry for ME" available in her universe. And then turned around and stuck a shiv in every individual who demonstrated their "sorrow" for this "pitiful, harmless little old lady." A painful lesson for those who are certain they know better/more than the offspring who had years of experience with an MN Parent(s) and terminated the relationship. Continuing to collude in the MN parental "fantasy" of omnipotence (and potential for a genuine relationship) who is now "vulnerable" secondary to the normal process of aging as an adult is your choice. However, it is quite imperious to suggest "feeling sorry" for an a MN parent/Perpetrator who has sadistically abused their offspring throughout their lives is de facto suggesting the Sin of Sodom continue as well as the MN dynamics which result in inevitable continuing exploitation by the recipient of MN abuse. Further, through feeling pity for the Perpetrator the normal feelings of the AC will magically morph into some "whatever" is delusional in that it is not reality based. What IS "tragic" is blaming the victim for their feelings subsequent to years of abuse and portraying such in the most negative possible fashion. Please read the entire Blog. Your comment indicates you have failed to grasp some of the most basic realities regarding MNs and MN Parents throughout the aging process: Unlike wine, they do NOT improve with age nor do they become less treacherous. Tundra Woman
How is it that all the Ns know how to act all the same without having read or studied anything? How can that be, when it's taking a lifetime of learning for the abused by reading and studying everything we can on the subject and even then, I read something new and have another major revelation giving insight into the N's despicable behavior? Does anyone know?
At least, since reading this blog, behavior that baffled me before now makes much more sense and I'm finally disembarking from the anger/guilt teeter-totter I've been on. All I want is to have my peace of mind. - Jeanie
PS. I think I am dealing with some MNs, not just Ns. I thought before that Ns had to be stalkers to be MNs but after reading more I don't think that's true but I'm not sure. Feel free to enlighten me.
In terms of your first question about how do all Narcs know how to act the same without having studied anything: Narcs are what they are because they reject all interactive mutuality grounded in good will: mutual respect, mutual rights, mutual concern, mutual regard and especially the mutual obligations which exist in healthy human relationships. It's not what they have "learned". It's what they refuse to do, because ordinary human obligations are beneath their grandiose dignity.
I'm convinced Ns all act the same because they all lack the same thing - empathy. There's only so many ways to operate as "human" with such a massive human deficit. I agree they have not "learned" to be this way, and that it's just their nature to "refuse to do." Without empathy they have no ability to relate to us as equal, so they choose to place themselves above us. But they've got it all wrong; their lack makes them less than, not more than us.
Jeanie, IMO, They've learned what "works" and what "works" are the same tactics a temper-tantrum throwing 2/3 yr. old with all the tenacity of little ones at that age/Stage of Development use to wear down or otherwise shut down anyone that opposes their agenda. Unfortunately, unlike little ones they never grow out of using these types of ploys to steam-roll the opposition, so to speak. They become VERY adept at picking up on verbal/non-verbal cues from others. "It's NOT that they DON'T SEE; they just DON'T AGREE." (I use quotes because I can't remember where I was reading that, but they're not my words.) IMO, many of the attempts to categorize are really just artificial constructs to set parameters around various behaviors, yk? FWIW, I think of Cluster Bs on more of a continuum in that there's a lot of overlap among them. Whereas Psychob was the relentless Stalker-From-Hell, MNsis won't "Attack" unless you happened to wander into her territory; then she's Psychob all over again. My very first search on the web was something like "Mothers that Stalk" or some variety of these search terms. The only results were on Stalking, but interestingly, none re: Mothers and Stalking. (I hope there are now!) All of the results on "Stalking" included PDs of various sorts, the vast majority not surprisingly were Cluster Bs. You're the "pro" on your situation, Jeanie. If what you're reading here resonates, welll......!!! TW
Wow. I can tell you have been through the same utter frustration that I have in dealing with a narcissist. I fell in love and had a baby with one. I could never have imagined that someone who used to tell me he would love me forever could display such cruelty and utter indifference to my feelings. It is a tough thing to go through. I'm coming out of it now and I feel so much relief in the growing indifference I feel towards the father of my beautiful daughter. I only hope he will not emotionally abuse her as well.
ReplyDeleteIf your daughter's father is a narcissist then it's not going to be easy for either of you. I hope someone out there who has gone through the same thing can share some insights. I'm glad that your are reaching indifference, it will give you clarity.
ReplyDeleteis there any info out there about how someone could be so hypersensitive about their own feelings but not able to understand our feelings? it's exactly the case when dealing with an MN but it doesn't make sense so wont stick in my head right.
ReplyDeleteThe poor little narcissist has very tender feelings for a variety of reasons... they have the mentality of 2 year olds so they are big babies who consider themselves the centre of the universe. Narcissists are grandiose so they must always have their egos stroked. They really believe they are above us mere mortals. If you fail to puff-up the narcissist's image they will view this as an attack. Narcissists only identify with their image. That means they don't identify with you - they lack empathy. Like 2 year old children, they can't see past their own selfish needs. Would you expect a 2 year old to understand that it's wrong to steal other children's toys, or pull their hair? Two year olds need to be taught these things, but eventually children grow-up and mature and learn that the universe doesn't revolve around them. This maturation process didn't happen with the narcissist. They may be in adult bodies, but they are really children perpetually stuck in the terrible twos. They have the mindset of a child, and the egos of a vengeful God.
ReplyDeleteYou might want to read the post *Malignant Narcissists Get Worse With Age* it breaks down the MN's mindset.
hope this helps.
that makes so much sense thank you. if all you are is an image then yeah you have no core, no substance so you can't relate to a real human being. it's like asking a mirror to understand how a human feels, it's impossible. god that's so sick to go through life with no substance, no heart or soul. i never realized that our empathy=heart and soul which equals identity and sense of who we are. also, i always felt that my MN had the maturity of a 2 year old so now i now i wasn't just imagining it!
ReplyDeleteSo I finally figured out what is wrong with my mom. It makes so much sense. Thanks you.
ReplyDeleteAnother aspect I have noticed is the fact that the Ns "relate" to others as though others are "things" not beings--and this also seems to apply to their 'selves"--to get by they seem to not be human (they do not feel, they do not look within, they don't communicate, they don't relate, they do not grow they do not mature) they are things themselves and for a thing to be ONE UP, it has to be the very best and be above the thing the N is comparing itself to. But since a thing that REQUIRES superiority is really a thing that knows itself to be needy/week/impotent, the N has to be haughty and contemptuous of that other THING that MAKES it feel less than. Basically if I pretend I am the greatest but also really know that I am a helpless infant, YOU are evil because you are self possessed, assertive, centered, calm, mature--therefor I am justified in disdaining you--you deserve it for causing my feelings. That seems to be the basic script ad nauseam---so boring that it hardly warrants indifference.
ReplyDeleteI feel kind of proud that I did a lot of this instinctively...Oo...When my n-sister would talk to me I would just indifferently look straight ahead sometimes and it would of course warrant a vicious remark from her. But...when you know the " tactics " etc. they don't phase you anymore. That's the way to get a narc...ignore the crap out of them. Doesn't even need practicing, comes naturally after a while. hrhr.
ReplyDeleteYou have to be careful to be out of the narc's sphere of influence though.
My narscisistic father is 90 yrs old now and will never change except he is more vulnerable now. Be goodto yourself and lose all hate and resentment and ty to feel sorry for them. Its no fun to be a narcissist and you miss out on so much. You neve realize what you have..isnt that tragic? If you can actually feel sorry for them, you feel better and bitterness eventually goes. Thats a state to wish for!
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that Righteous Anger should be subsumed to "feeling sorry for" an MN Parent(s). Additionally, those who grew up under MN abuse and respond with honesty and integrity regarding their feelings are then slapped with the labels "hate," "resentment," and "bitter."
ReplyDeleteI can absolutely assure you, my MN "mother" even in her elderly years parasitically expropriated every last bit of "feel sorry for ME" available in her universe. And then turned around and stuck a shiv in every individual who demonstrated their "sorrow" for this "pitiful, harmless little old lady." A painful lesson for those who are certain they know better/more than the offspring who had years of experience with an MN Parent(s) and terminated the relationship.
Continuing to collude in the MN parental "fantasy" of omnipotence (and potential for a genuine relationship) who is now "vulnerable" secondary to the normal process of aging as an adult is your choice. However, it is quite imperious to suggest "feeling sorry" for an a MN parent/Perpetrator who has sadistically abused their offspring throughout their lives is de facto suggesting the Sin of Sodom continue as well as the MN dynamics which result in inevitable continuing exploitation by the recipient of MN abuse. Further, through feeling pity for the Perpetrator the normal feelings of the AC will magically morph into some "whatever" is delusional in that it is not reality based. What IS "tragic" is blaming the victim for their feelings subsequent to years of abuse and portraying such in the most negative possible fashion.
Please read the entire Blog. Your comment indicates you have failed to grasp some of the most basic realities regarding MNs and MN Parents throughout the aging process: Unlike wine, they do NOT improve with age nor do they become less treacherous.
Tundra Woman
How is it that all the Ns know how to act all the same without having read or studied anything? How can that be, when it's taking a lifetime of learning for the abused by reading and studying everything we can on the subject and even then, I read something new and have another major revelation giving insight into the N's despicable behavior? Does anyone know?
ReplyDeleteAt least, since reading this blog, behavior that baffled me before now makes much more sense and I'm finally disembarking from the anger/guilt teeter-totter I've been on. All I want is to have my peace of mind. - Jeanie
PS. I think I am dealing with some MNs, not just Ns. I thought before that Ns had to be stalkers to be MNs but after reading more I don't think that's true but I'm not sure. Feel free to enlighten me.
In terms of your first question about how do all Narcs know how to act the same without having studied anything: Narcs are what they are because they reject all interactive mutuality grounded in good will: mutual respect, mutual rights, mutual concern, mutual regard and especially the mutual obligations which exist in healthy human relationships. It's not what they have "learned". It's what they refuse to do, because ordinary human obligations are beneath their grandiose dignity.
ReplyDeleteI'm convinced Ns all act the same because they all lack the same thing - empathy. There's only so many ways to operate as "human" with such a massive human deficit. I agree they have not "learned" to be this way, and that it's just their nature to "refuse to do." Without empathy they have no ability to relate to us as equal, so they choose to place themselves above us. But they've got it all wrong; their lack makes them less than, not more than us.
ReplyDeleteJeanie, IMO, They've learned what "works" and what "works" are the same tactics a temper-tantrum throwing 2/3 yr. old with all the tenacity of little ones at that age/Stage of Development use to wear down or otherwise shut down anyone that opposes their agenda. Unfortunately, unlike little ones they never grow out of using these types of ploys to steam-roll the opposition, so to speak. They become VERY adept at picking up on verbal/non-verbal cues from others. "It's NOT that they DON'T SEE; they just DON'T AGREE." (I use quotes because I can't remember where I was reading that, but they're not my words.) IMO, many of the attempts to categorize are really just artificial constructs to set parameters around various behaviors, yk? FWIW, I think of Cluster Bs on more of a continuum in that there's a lot of overlap among them. Whereas Psychob was the relentless Stalker-From-Hell, MNsis won't "Attack" unless you happened to wander into her territory; then she's Psychob all over again.
ReplyDeleteMy very first search on the web was something like "Mothers that Stalk" or some variety of these search terms. The only results were on Stalking, but interestingly, none re: Mothers and Stalking. (I hope there are now!) All of the results on "Stalking" included PDs of various sorts, the vast majority not surprisingly were Cluster Bs.
You're the "pro" on your situation, Jeanie. If what you're reading here resonates, welll......!!!
TW