Tuesday, 31 May 2011

Never Show "Vulnerability" to a Narcissist




Never show signs of weakness around a narcissist because when you’re down that’s precisely when they’re going to kick. This is true for all narcissists, from your garden variety straight on up to the malignant.  All narcissists salivate at the sign of a vulnerable target - be it mental, emotional or physical vulnerability.



Narcissists are spineless bullies. They are insecure, jealous, inadequate, attention seeking little brats trapped in the body of an adult.  Have you ever referred to a narcissist as a strong person? I doubt it. Narcissists are immature weaklings and cowards. Their personality disorder makes them so. When they see an easy opportunity to strike they can’t help themselves. 

They are nasty little children and they don’t fight fair.  

Malignant narcissists are predators by nature and predators devour the bleeding and the injured. They can't help themselves; it’s their animal instinct. They respond to your vulnerability like a rabid junkyard dog to a meaty bone: they’ve gotta chomp on it.

So I ask you, are you going to show insecurity around a sadistic little brat who’s always looking for ways to vaunt themselves at your expense? Are you going to show signs of weakness around a vicious predator whose very nature is to attack vulnerable prey? Narcissists are unsafe, period. But they are especially dangerous when you are in a weakened state. Sharks sniff out blood.

All narcissists identify with other abusers, so if you have been harmed by another person – most likely another narcissist - do not tell them. The narcissist will not only pathologize you but defend their fellow narcissist. Feel better now? The narcissist does. You see, narcissists are always scrounging around for validation of their abusiveness. If you offer up proof of another harmful person – in the narcissist's eyes – you have justified their own cruel behaviour. Birds of a feather and all that.

In the most sinister way; the vile narcissist will attribute virtues to your abuser while giving you a good kick. For example, you are in utter distress because a co-worker has been bullying, undermining, and sabotaging you for over a year. He's trying to get you fired; he wants your job.  You are at wits end, losing sleep, nervous, stressed out and ready to quit your job because of the situation. The narcissist - let's call her Sherry - will simply be delighted to hear of your dilemma, and react to your predicament by saying, “Oh, come on. He’s not a bad person. He’s just a hard worker and his job is important to him. Maybe he’s been taking notes on you. You’re just not taking very good care of yourself.”

See what the narcissist did? Sherry just defended her fellow narcissist saying that he’s a good guy, a hard worker, cares about his job and obviously has dirt on you. The narcissist just told you that you are bad, lazy, you don’t care about your job, and that you’re obviously doing something that warrants note taking and the narcissist’s abuse. Furthermore, the narcissist assigned the cause of your distress to you for not taking care of yourself. It’s your fault. Get it? You were asking for it. That’s why the co-worker narcissist abused you, and that’s why Sherry is justified in abusing you. The vile narcissist feels better now.  


Here's another example of the narcissist's callousness. You've been in a serious accident in which you suffered a massive cut to your face. The injury was so bad that it required plastic surgery. You are still in a state of shock from the accident; you are beaten-up, stitched-up, battered and bruised. You are distressed at the state of your face; you are weakened and run down from surgery. Laid up in bed, you make the mistake of sending a fact based email notifying a narcissist of your accident. Let's call the vile narcissist Myra. Myra responds with a one line email that says, "Keep it in perspective." She adds a link to a YouTube video of a guy with no arms and no legs. Feel better now? The vile narcissist Myra does.

Let's take a look at what both of the narcissists did. They placed themselves above you as your judge: "Keep it in perspective." "You're not taking care of yourself." This condescending superiority aggrandizes the narcissist. They denied you any attention and let you know that you don't matter. They blamed you, the victim, and attributed virtues to your abuser. They dismissed and minimized your experience. Let you know that you had no right to even bring up your accident, let alone feel anything because someone out in YouTube land has no arms and legs (as if they care). They justified their outrageous callousness and derived pleasure from you pain.

And get this: Sherry calls you up bawling her eyes out because her date stood her up, and she expects you to comfort her. Myra - a 65 year old woman - calls you up bawling her eyes out because her sister doesn't have time to frame her paintings for her show, and she expects your sympathy.

Ugh! You get it: they're narcissists. They are big babies and parasitic bottom feeders who are always scrounging the surface of every interaction looking for ways to feed. Their entire existence is based on deep rooted selfishness. 

Here’s one final example of a narcissist taking advantage of your vulnerability. You've had a bad fall in which you suffered a massive cut to your face. You are still recovering and you are coming to terms with the fact that your face is going to be permanently scarred. The narcissist knows that you are self-conscious about the scar on your face and how it is healing.

You visit the narcissist and notice that he needs a few things around the house. Although you are the one in need of care, you go out and purchase a bunch of helpful and thoughtful items for the narcissist. You package everything up really nice and with a smile present the big bag of goodies to the narcissist. The narcissist takes the gift bag and with a big smirk on his face and an evil glint in his eye, he snarks, “that thing on your face is really red.”  You can’t hide the fact that he hurt your feelings. The narcissist looks like he is high on drugs.

When you are in a weakened state that’s when the narcissist's fangs come out. Vulnerability makes you the perfect target to abuse, control and manipulate. Never let a narcissist know that someone has done you wrong; never let them sniff out an insecurity; never let them see you sweat. What elicits warmth and compassion in normal people, provokes an act of shocking inhumanity in a narcissist. They will attack when you can't defend yourself and deny you whatever you are in need of: be it serious medical attention, a roof over your head or an ounce of sympathy.

Don’t ignore the twisted aggression inherent in all narcissists. Don’t engage in fantasy and magical thinking. Don't try to penetrate their callousness. When we refuse the truth of what the narcissist really is, we leave the door wide open to abuse.

Whatever is ruling your emotions at the time will be used against you by the narcissist. Don’t involve them in the sensitive areas of your life, don’t let them into your head space, keep them away from your wounds. Protect yourself. If you must be in contact with a narcissist, play your cards very close to your vest. Don't display any signs of neediness. They are the enemy of goodwill and the last people you want around during a time of crisis.

Narcissists are terrorists who invade mental and emotional borders. They are constantly engaged in an invisible war of control.  It's ALWAYS about their boundaries, their terms, their agenda, and their conveniences while you lie dying by the side of the road.

74 comments:

  1. That's for sure, and they'll accuse you of being "all about yourself" for setting limits and terms of your own. The "invisible war of control" rages on - great way of putting it.

    Really enjoying your blog!
    upsi

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  2. Completely agree. I never knew my NM was a Narc until a couple years ago, but I always (as in from childhood) knew that I would not share with her how I feel or stuff that goes on with me, unlike what I observed with my friends and their moms.

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  3. I kept an emotional distance from my mn mom too. I recognized at a young age that she was unsafe and seemed to enjoy my pain. She needed to feed so she would snoop, spy and violate my privacy in order to dig up something to hurt me with. She's still doing it. That's why I don't communicate with anyone she has access to.

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  4. I found about NPD last year, it basically blew the veil off describing how my mother worked and several other relatives. . One rule I had developed in my mind is "NEVER SHOW ANY VULNERABILITY" the two times I have slipped in the last 20 years, [under serious duress] both times was a mistake. The first time she told me "you are loser and have nothing to show for your life", [that week I wrote her a letter saying I know you are a narcissist and she pretended not to get it like she has a few others over the years] and the second time "you will be homeless behind a shopping cart". Emotional support? forget it! When your mother's basically an ice queen and she says of terminally ill relatives that they are taking too long to die you know you are dealing with something else entirely. I have limited contact, some reasons, and to see other family members, but she controls the entire roost, and many of them being afraid of her, see me as a the "rebel" and do not want to displease her and keep their distance though a few maintain some contact with me.

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  5. You can't hide your emotional state under serious duress - it's impossible, but you can trust a narcissist will take full advantage of your vulnerability and assault you. They're anti-human and people are afraid of them for that reason. So, everyone obeys the narcissist and lays low because they don't want to be the next one targeted for an attack. Few people stand up to bullies and if you do then you're labelled a "rebel" and a "trouble maker." People are monkeys - see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

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  6. I agree Lisette. I may want to write you as I am facing the facts of a family with severe narcissism and very glad I found this blog. I forgive myself for those two times under severe emotional duress, you are right they move in like wolves on prey when they see you in a weakened position. I have been scapegoated to the degree, many family members will not visit me, though some will talk to me on the phone. The whole family does "lay low" scared to upset the matriarch, and some even avoid close contact with me as that is a big no no, since I am the one family "rebel" and "trouble-maker". I agree people are monkeys and today many do just not want to know.

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  7. I'm also glad you found this blog. In fact, there is a whole community of bloggers (many of whom are the family 'scapegoat') who are coming to terms with the narcissists in their lives and the abuse they've endured. We are healing, learning and sharing our experiences and giving each other strength and support. You've come to the right place. You're not alone. None of us are.

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  8. This is true without question. I know for a fact that the severe abuse and neglect I suffered as a child was simply a ploy to make sure I was constantly desperate and vulnerable. My MN parents fed off me for 21 years by depriving me of the things I needed to survive: love, safety and companionship. I was lonely, isolated, starved for attention, battered, brainwashed and suffered persistent and systematic violence. For so long I was stuck in the details, but now I know those things were nothing but a means to an end - to ensure I remained vulnerable and totally without defences. It took me 21 years to get away, but I have never been back. Any visits/phone calls/emails just kept reminding me of why I needed to leave in the first place. Now I know NO CONTACT is the way to health and recovery. Thank you for giving a name for what was an extremely distressing and traumatising 21 years for me.

    SPN

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  9. I sit here in stunned silence. You have described my mother and sister. I learned some valuable things from you, and am extremely grateful for your blog. I was getting ready to go talk to my sister about the pain and agony I've endured from my mother, but then I realized that what you said is true: she will be giddy with glee. She and my mother feed off one another, just as your mother and sister. They despise one another deep down, but they are dependent upon one another. It's disturbing to be around either of them. She is the person who looked upon me with a contemptuous smirk when I was very, very ill about three years ago and heard she was moving out of town, so I had my husband take me to her house so I could hug her and tell her that I was happy for her if she was moving for a new job, but that I would miss her terribly. And I had tears in my eyes as I hugged her, and I told her that I loved her. I was so, so ill and honestly believed I might be dying within the next six months.....and I wanted her to know that I loved her. I will never--and I do mean NEVER--forget the look on her face. She looked at me as if I had crawled out from beneath a rock, and then she got the most goddawful smirk on her face, as if my vulnerability had released a fetid stench into the air. And she said something which clearly let me know how ridiculous and silly.....and pathetic.....she thought I was. She even laughed, but it wasn't a pleasant laugh at all. It was a laugh that said, "You are an idiot!" Oh my gosh, it was horrible. Just horrible. And her precious daughter, my 12-year-old niece, was standing right there, observing all of this. So there I stood, ill, with tears in my eyes, trying to convey to her that I would miss her and that I loved her.....and it had no meaning to her whatsoever!! In fact, she treated me as if I were the biggest idiot, the most pathetic creature, she'd ever seen. I will never, ever forget that experience. She is so like our sadistic, psychopathic father. I cried all the way back home that afternoon, thinking that I was unlovable and stupid, just as I've always felt. You helped open my eyes! But, it hurts....it hurts so much to know how much she and my mother look down on me and care nothing about me.

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  10. Anonymous,
    Thank you for your comment. It's horrible what you have experienced, but sadly I can relate. I've seen the look that you described. It's very creepy. One of the last times I saw my N mother was after a big blow-out. I told her I loved her and gave her a hug. She looked at me as if I smelled, and shrivelled in my embrace. I knew right then and there that she was weak, WEAK! Love, and the expression of love to a malignant narcissist is like a bucket of water over the Wicked Witch of The West - "I'm melting!... I'm melting!" They are reduced to nothing but a puddle in the presence of real love. They are rendered powerless, and must act fast to gain an upperhand (hence the callous/belittling reaction).. Love is like the antidote to their evil. Your mother and sister don't care about you because they're not capable of loving. It has nothing to do with you. You can't get blood out of a stone. I'm glad your eyes are opened. These people (if you can call them that) are not like us. Thank you for such a vivid description of a "special moment" with a malignant narcissist. You nailed it, and it sounds like you learned from it. Oneday the hurt will be replaced by anger. I hope you embrace your anger, you've surely earned it.

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  11. I love this blog! You describe the encounters so well. Here is another example. Our kids are outside playing. Neighbors see us outside playing and walk over to join. N finds out the next day through a random conversation (or driving by and stalking us, but she will always want us to think she talked to someone she has a "relationship" with) that we "had people over." N rages at me (target) for "never calling our nephews when others kids are here playing." She said she loves our kids and would never "purposefully" exclude them (her). Because of this "excluding them on purpose" she now goes and tells everyone that we are social climbers and that everything we do is to try and "out-position" them. (projection anyone?) She then made it very clear to me that she doesn't expect us to call her every time we have people over. (False self) But her reaction makes it very clear...Be my N supply OR ELSE!

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  12. Anonymous,
    You've sure got that N's number. If I may, I would like to add: control freak, inveterate snoop, busybody, liar, slanderer, manipulator, gaslighter, paranoid, delusional, grandiose, and the list goes on. That was all conveyed in your description, just wanted to toss in some jabs at her. She's clearly dangerous.

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  13. Very dangerous indeed. I keep hearing that the best way to defend yourself agains an N is to keep being yourself and doing what YOU choose to do. Problem is, the more you do that, the more they try to "insert self" into every situation. And they are MASTERS at doing so. Bottom line is, if you try to walk around them, they will throw themselves in front of you so that you HAVE to trip. And then go on to say how clumsy you are.

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  14. Anonymous,
    You pointed out the truth about Ns, and gave me a good chuckle. That takes skill.

    Thank you.

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  15. When I first started dating my ex-Nhusband, he told me he had a bad cold, but was going to work anyway. I had the day off and thought it would be sooooo nice to make him some homemade soup. I then drove the 30 miles that he lived from me, and delivered it so he could be surprised and grateful when he got home from work.

    I didn't hear from him, so got worried and called him later in the evening. He said he was feeling a little better, but never mentioned the soup. I finally asked him about it? His comment was "ewe, it had onions in it". Shame on me for not knowing he despised onions. I felt so awful. Huge red flag, but I blames myself.

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  16. Ugh. He didn't need soup, he needed his blankie, and a pacifier. I think that's what bugs me the most about ALL Ns - no matter where they sit on the spectrum - they're all just a bunch of big, whiny, spoiled babies. Three year olds trapped in adult bodies - there's nothing more revolting!

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  17. Seriously! You can NEVER do anything nice enough or selfless enough for them. They will ALWAYS deny you, confuse you, and leave you feeling invalidated. The only way you can please them is to let them erase your heart and soul and completely to use you like a robot for their ego. Yes you are the best A. And the best B. And the best C. Blah blah blah. Sure I'll do this and that and this because you do so much. Blah blah blah. Glad he is an ex. And hope you live far away. The MN in my life has been quiet lately. I would love to think that means MN has given up and is going to stop MNing me. Instead I fear MN is just planning the next great attack. Step one: Gaslight. Step two. Manipulate. Step three: Force compliance. Trying my best to refuel and avoid!

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  18. Oh have just stumbled on your blog. I am just about to write about my family. My family of narcisstists.. They make you feel like your the one going around the bend. I love your blog . My family threw me out in the snow at 15 as I was late coming home at 11.30pm at night suitcases were on the step along with my puppy.. while they wnet back to bed. so many things happened I am now 60 have not spoken to them in 3 years. only just started 15 months ago that lasted all of a couple of months till they knew I was going to uk for a trip. came home with gifts only to be told they are leaving there home to my brat sister the golden child. so me and my husband have not spoken for over a year. I know w eshall nver ever talk again. But id like to let them know how they have treated me in my passed child hood. thou family memebrs would not beleive half of it !!

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  19. Lisette, what do you consider the differences between garden variety and malignant narcissists? Great post btw.

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  20. Anonymous,
    I think the thing that separates the malignant narcissist from the rest of the N clan, is that they are predators: they stalk their prey. They deliberately and actively go out of their way to harm, and or, destroy others. Others who have done nothing to them and would never do anything to them. MNs need no reason, or motive to hurt others, they just do it because it feels good. They are bullies. Other Ns on the spectrum, low to med to high and everything in between generally are not stalkers, or bullies. They can be cruel too but it's mainly callous indifference, neglect, dismissiveness, treating other from a postion of superiority etc. etc. But, what they ALL have in common is lack of empathy so you don't want to be vulnerable around Ns. They have no real feelings for others... it's all about them. If you ever have the misfortune of coming across a MN, and see them with their mask-off (behind closed doors) you will know the difference. Ms feed-off their victims, and don't like to lose control of them so they stalk and harass them when they go no contact. Other Ns don't really care if you leave. In their eyes, you're easy to replace, but they may surface if they need some supply from you. In my experience, MNs possess a level of malice, aggression, and viciousness that others N don't seem to have, and that's what makes them predatory. They target others for systematic destruction.

    Hope that helps.

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  21. Thank you for your response; I know some people, like Kathy Krajco, don't think NPD is a spectrum disorder, but I know a few garden varieties and you get a definite sense that something's amiss with them. I actually find that they can appear to be quite good friends, even in the long term when there's nothing obvious to be gained. Or would that cast a shadow of doubt on the amateur diagnosis?

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  22. They will totally attack you at your lowest state. It is so exhausting having to constantly protect yourself in any and every way you can possibly imagine (even though their thinking is so warped and
    inhumane, you couldn't possibly prepare for their abuse), you can't help but feel tired and it is so difficult to not let them see the self-doubt they've created, the lowered self-esteem and lack of confidence that is so difficult to hide, but it's true.
    You allow the slightest sliver of anything "weak" to show, then you might as well have just handed them the sword of which to stab you with and the shit for them to pile on top and then the pointed cowboy boots of which to kick you in the ass with and then again in the front as you lay there curled in a ball on the ground. It is so hard to be positive after enduring so much abuse. Never let your guard down, though. One thing I know from first-hand experience trying to figure out their "cruel intentions", is that everything they say, every single sentence has some motive to it - every sentence is a manipulation to fulfill or in the quest to fulfill some need or desire or want they possess. They are very calculating and they are always up to something - something incomprehensible to us, so unless you've experienced this same agenda with them previuosly, you can't even begin to protect yourself. Always have your guard up and never relax or your doomed. * This is a bit off the subject, but I've recently noticed a common snicker the N's I know have. It's this "tee-hee-hee, snicker, snicker", it's a mean, sneaky, disturbing snicker they do as they're pretending to laugh. It's spooky! Anyone else notice that?

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    1. Anonymous,
      Thanks for your comment; it's spot on. It truly is exhausting to be around these N predator/Vampires. Yep, we must always be on guard and we can never relax in their presence. My MN family did a nice job of messing-up my nervous system and that's something I have to live with, but I refuse to allow any more Ns access to me. If they wanna try something, then make my day... because all the abuse has turned me into a growling watch dog as far as PD creatures go.

      As for the snickering. Yes, I've noticed common stuff like that between Ns. That snicker is like something nasty children do when they've gotten away with mischief, or they're laughing behind someone's back. It really is spooky when it's coming from an adult. Another thing I've noticed is that they like to give themselves away. If you're on to them you can catch this. They'll say things that reveal their deception, usually in a sing song type voice, and a smug smile. It's all a game to them. They like to see how much they can get away with, even if nothing significant depends on it because messing with people's minds gives them a thrill. The evil glint in their eye, the smug smirk, the snickering and sing song voice is all gaslighting. It's trademark N evil, and a good indication that they're playing head games. My MN mother used to do this shit, and when I was older I just turned around and imitated her. Unfortunately, that didn't do much good. Her evil eyes just gleamed and her smirk curled-up to grotesque proportions. The thing about Ns is that they are all just a bunch of nasty 3 year old bullies trapped in the body of an adult, and that is really disturbing.

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  23. As I googled, trying to once again come to grips with my Mother and sister, I found your blog. I am so tired of them. I am 60 now, and the emotional crap has been so consuming. Now, I am the caregiver for our Nmother who has dementia. I think-oh, she must have had dementia since I was a small child, because she was always angry, mean, unavailable. Once when I was about 5 years old, I told her I was sad about something. She replied, "Think of my feelings first, then others, then your own." Even then I sensed it was wrong, but in the 50s, we did not consider that our parents were evil or sick. Also, when you are 5 or 6, or 12, it does not occur to you that you are not loved. I felt invisible, that I did not matter, wondering what I was doing on this planet. I kept trying to get some approval from Mother about anything I accomplished. Nothing. Now that she "needs me", that she will not have a fifth husband to spoil her, that no friends or other family members care for her, she tells me she loves me. The first time I heard her say that was when I was 25. During the early 70s, I married a demonstrative Italian man who taught me how to say and do. When I first said, "I love you, Mom", she nervously and stiltedly replied, "me too." In 1991 as she was marrying her 4th husband at the age of 75, she said she would no longer be coming south to visit us for the Holidays, as she had a "new family." It was a struggle to get her to come to my son's graduation from high school in 98, yet she went on and on about events she was attending for her husband's grandchildren. I don't understand, I don't forgive her. Even now as she sits blind, unable to walko speak a sentence with a real word as the subject, take up space and time in a care home waiting to die, to me, she is manipulating the world yet, to do her bidding. My sister is as pathetic and selfish as she is. When I asked 2 years ago if she would help with Mother while my husband and I got away for a break, she said her life was more important than mine and that is why she has her important responsibilities and I am doing "this." What an effing B--ch, if I may say that here. Sorry. Last week I had an anxiety attack for the first time, my blood pressure is high, and I have gained 10 pounds. I hate to think they are going to be the death of me, but sometimes I long to be out of here and this body. If you can give me any advice, I'll take it. Thank you for being here. I have a wonderful husband and 2 great adult kids who love me. I hate to think my inadequacies from my own childhood prevented me from being the best parent I could be. I think I did a good job, but they were born lovely. Bye, Friends. xo

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  24. Chloe, I'm glad that you stumbled upon this wonderful blog; hopefully you'll hang around because there's a wealth of information here and quite a few people who understand where you're coming form.

    I grew up with a very cold, abusive MN mother, and till date, she has never said "I love you" to me. I am the scapegoat; the one who she projects the worst of herself onto, so she hates me as much as it's possible to hate another person. It wasn't good enough to hate me from a distance; she actively has been trying to destroy me for years! She's alienated me from others, stalked me, filed false CPS reports so that I would be investigated for child abuse, tried to get my husband to divorce me...there's plenty more, but these are just a few highlights.

    It is my opinion that they only way to even begin healing from the effects of so many years of abuse is to get away from them. Dealing with them any little bit is like pouring salt on our wounds...I have NC (no contact) at all, whatsoever with my MN mother. It's amazing how much more clearly I am able to see, and what I do see I am repulsed by. The day I cut that evil woman out of my life is my new birthday. I feel like this is the first time in my life that I'm actually beginning to live, and my only regret in this is that I didn't initiate NC sooner.

    Lisette has another good post which would probably be really helpful to you. On the right, there is a popular post section, and if you haven't read, "Malignant Narcissists Get Worse With Age", check it out when you get a chance.

    Anon

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  25. hi lisette,
    i am so glad your blog is back on!! i have missed it tremendously and it has helped me in so many ways i cannot even begin. i have not written on this before, but i wanted you to know how important this blog is to me and obviously so many others. thankyou, thankyou, beleah

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  26. I love your blog Lisette! It is therapeutic for me having recently distanced myself from my N friend/neighbor after having been her primary source of supply for 6 years. She put on the charm at first (of course) and had befriended me at a low point in my life. As things began to turn around for me the N showed her true colors. She became pathologically envious of everything she felt I had...material possessions, friends, jobs...ANYTHING! If she couldn't outdo me, she would make up a lie or insult me. She tried to sabatoge my friendships, and make sure that all of our neighbors and people in our social circle liked her better. If I confided in her, she would exploit my confidence. In the end, I felt so controlled, bullied, abused, and angry. I used to ask "why" all the time..."what kind of friend would do that"..."why would she say that"...When I came upon the NPD resources, I didn't ask why anymore and eventually gathered the courage to distance myself from her. This didn't sit well with the N, as I have been the subject of Facebook updates and the target of a smear campaign amongst our mutual friends. I don't care what the N does, because I am happy and at peace now that she is out of my life. This is the greatest revenge on a N. They really are truly pathetic.

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  27. Reading your blog has made me cry !! I've been with a man for over 4 years , started off like a dream come true. He was my 1st love in high school and after 14 years we got back together right after I turned 30. He was so in love with me and I was so in love with him. Small things happened in the beginning that made me worry (red flags) but I let them go because he seemed so grateful to have me in his life. He quickly started satyimg at my place (basically living with me without the financial obligation) His friends came over on weekends and everything was fine with me. He had no problem expressing love for me and I felt lucky to have him . He eventually started complaining that he felt controlled by me (I was shocked ) . I had a miscarriage about 8 months into the relationship on a night where we had a horrible fight . I called him and told him he quickly told me he was unavailable as he had driven to a friends house for a bbq. He then blamed me the next day for fighting and excused not being there for me because of it. I found out weeks later that he went to a strip club that night as well (he says his friends pushed him to go and he only went for one drink) I was miscarrying his child and in pain that night. There is so much to tell I can't possibly write everything.
    He has told me (always enraged when he does) That I'm boring, annoying, that my daughter (i don't have children yet) will end up being a whore because I'm such a baby and all I do is cry. He told me he lost all his friends because of me (keep in mind he told all his friends I was trying to control him) he said the last 4 years were a waste and that he constantly felt like he was in trouble and had to fix things with me and it kept him from his life. He complained my house was mine and nothing there was his. I gave him my office as his own, I tried everything and the more I gave the more he raged. I always knew I was being emotionally abused but he would somehow convince me to stay.
    He would tell me he wasn't as attracted to me anymore because we fought too much and that sometimes having sex with me was a chore. He constantly rejected me and sex was only when he was in the mood. Sex was not intimate it was always like a porno movie, sometimes I felt like he would have sex with me because I was next to him and I could of been anyone else.
    He told me once I was beautiful but if i got the bump on my nose fixed I'd be stunning. He told me all I did was cry and I was like a 15 year old high school student. He would go from loving to major rage almost everyday.
    I had a second miscarriage and he told me the next day that I was too emotional.
    I started seeing a therapist that said I was showing signs of post traumatic stress and my depression grew deeper. I was a mess. He yelled at me like a psycho that I needed to suck it up. felt like dying (I've always been full of life ) and he told me to jump off a cliff/ He told me he wanted someone strong and that I'm to weak.
    He told me my parents gave me too much love and I was too spoiled and expected too much from him.

    ReplyDelete
  28. this is my follow up to last.
    this is following last one...
    My brother was in the hospital waiting for a surgery the DR said he might not survive and he went out that night and lied to me about whre he was, I sent him a text asking him if he was coming home and he replied, I'm out. I never go out, I'm staying out.
    He told me I ruined his life, that my control was never going to make him go anywhere in life.
    He destroyed my self esteem.
    There's so much more I'm not even sure I'm saying enough to describe what he's done to me.
    He yelled at me constantly , telling me to shut up, telling to fuck off, that he will never marry me. The next minute he would say marry me I love you, I love your love.
    He would say sorry but it seemed empty and he would always repeat the thing he would say sorry for.
    He HAS NO EMPATHY FOR ME AT ALL! No remorse, no compassion
    Everyone thinks he's great however, they think he dances to a beat of his own drum but he's always ready and willing to help a friend in need,
    He would tell me I talk too much, my conversations are boring, I'm too loud (he would put his index finger in his ears to show me I was too loud, but he always got loud)
    He told me I'm embarrassing, I embarrassed him in front of all his friends,
    He would constantly tell me Richard Branson would never of become the man he is with a woman like me on his side.
    He told me I'm crazy , I lost my mind and needed help.
    I tried to stand up for myself and I lost my cool as well as anyone would!
    I would tell him he needed help to go see a therapist , That he was emotionally abusing me , That my therapist said it was possible I was dealing with a narcissist.
    after 4 years he finally started therapy but his therapist seems to think that because he is there and willing to admit he loses his cool that he can't possibly be a narcissist and I need to be responsible for the relationship problems as much as he is!!!
    I don't know what to do. I'm so lost!! Help! He makes me feel that he wants to change that he loves me and he wants to marry me. He however has said this so many times before. I feel ugly now, I feel all the things he's said to me .
    help
    there's really so much more.
    REPLY PLEASE!!!!!REPLY

    ReplyDelete
  29. You need to be on your P's and Q's around these people. For example, I had to have some minor surgery, and needed someone to check me out the medical center (the will not let me out medicated up). I asked this one lady that I knew, if she can come and sign me out. She came, and I thanked her. I drove myself home...the following day she called me and told me that she got into a car accident after she picked me up from the hospital. In short, she tried to guilt me into being her friend. She talked about her accident everytime she called me. Finally, I had ignore her. If I did not use my intuition and common sense about what she was doing. She would've gotten the best of me.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I used this to my advantage. I played a little trick on the narcs in my life. I complained about made up stuff and watched them go at it. They still do, they just don't know they are picking at nothing. * chuckles *

    ReplyDelete
  31. yeah avoid the narcissist IF you can. Then we have the legal system that pats psychopaths on the back and belittles and ignores victims of N.abuse. Then you are forced to be in a c-parenting relationship with the abuser!!!! talk about trapped. no way out and the system supposed to protect victims of abuse simply holds you down and ties your hands while they continue to rape ad abuse you in every way possible. I have never felt so much hatred for a person or for the system as I do now.

    ReplyDelete
  32. What's really alarming is how many people are like this. They are EVERYWHERE, it seems, and they have just about everyone else under their spell, believing them and not you, even if they've known you longer. And of course it's always "your fault" that you "choose" guys like this, what the hell is wrong with you, YEAH, RIGHT!!! My predator is in jail for strangling me, smothering me with a pillow and trying to snap my neck because I was crying and he "hates crying." I just loved every minute of that, let me tell ya!!! That's the kind of guy I'd be proud to take home to Mom!!!! NOT!!!! I don't know what's worse, the predator, or the so-called "friends" who think you're making up his abuse, "to get attention," like you're a spoiled little kid or something. I can only wonder what happened to these people that made them what they are today. Forget trying to figure them out, I'd rather clean my cats' litterbox with my mouth than try to figure out these total emotional black holes, these gaping maws, that try to pass for human beings. There's too much fun to be had in the world, and I intend to have at least some of it. Now if I could just shake the death grip that this loser has on my ankle...he called from jail, and in the brief moment in the pre-recorded announcement that this is a call from jail, where he should have stated his name, instead I heard this eerie, sickening chant: 'Please don't leave me, please don't leave me, please don't leave me..." OH, YEAH, WERE YOU THINKING THAT WHILE YOU WERE TIGHTENING THAT CORD AROUND MY NECK SO I COULDN'T TALK LET ALONE BREATHE, AND GRINNING WITH GLEE AS YOU WERE DOING IT??? I HOPE YOU'RE SOMEBODY'S "OLD LADY" IN JAIL, IT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESERVE. I'm at home with PTSD, on disability, seeing a psychologist, and finally getting back to my old self again. I will say one thing for him: I am 51, no children, never married, and he has cured me forever of that longing for companionship that led me to let this piece of poo into my life. I'm quite content to be alone now. For that, I thank him.

    ReplyDelete
  33. "All narcissists identify with other abusers, so if you have been harmed by another person – most likely another narcissist - do not tell them. The narcissist will not only pathologize you but defend their fellow narcissist. Feel better now? The narcissist does. You see, narcissists are always scrounging around for validation of their abusiveness. If you offer up proof of another harmful person – in the narcissist's eyes – you have justified their own cruel behaviour. Birds of a feather and all that."

    It took me 15 years to realize this (SMDH at myself)....

    My ex best friend (a bitchmade coward even by MN standards) used to do this all the time....

    Everytime I told him about how some MN asshole disrespected me, he would always either....

    A) Defend their behavior.

    B) Downplay their behavior.

    OR

    C) Tell me that their bad behavior was MY fault (Whiskey Tango Foxtrot).

    As the years went by, however, I started to realize that he wasn't defending THEIR bad behavior but HIS.

    Birds of a feather, indeed.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I agree with anon about the pathological abuse. It seems that their thinking is twisted. If you tell them that you DON'T like something or someone did something to hurt you. They will commit that same crime against you. However, if you tell them that you like or enjoy something, then they will not do what you like. This makes me so confuse, I don't think that I can ever figure them out. I'll just stay far away from them!

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  35. It's oh so true, unfortunately. You must have seen Hell very closely to write so well about it. The injuries these people provoke onto others are beyond imagination for those who were never victim of a N. I had no idea such demons existed until I met one. And the worst thing is (well, one of the worst...), it's so hard to explain the kind of pain they inflict. I for one could not - and still can't - tell how deep I have suffered. Thank You for putting words on a ever open wound.

    ReplyDelete
  36. NM's are always in attack mode, if they're not attacking they're just planning the next one. They are sharks who never sleep. Every conversation is a mindgame, every sentence is a move on the chessboard.

    Never ever relax and most importantly never fight fire with fire, they use tears to put out the fire. Don't parry when struck at, take a step back instead. Remember you will never win, to them it's a lifelong war of gaining control. Their only enjoyment, or maybe satisfaction is gaining the upper hand, it confirms to them in their warped minds that they are better.
    However they do make mistakes, they hate dissenters and have tempers and drop their guard by being callous in front of a larger group but if challenged , they can always claim they are being ganged up on.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I can completely relate to everything that is being said about the typical N. My mother is an N, and I've been no contact with her for 5 years now, and she hasnt seen her grand children or anything, but she still stalks me to this very day, crying at how she is victim. My family is completely oblivious to her true character. She tried to kill me, and she even tried to kill my father. My father kisses her ass though, despite 40 years of cheating on her.

    But there is a happy ending. Ns can only take the power that you give them. They need your cooperation for them to abuse you, so once you know what you are truly dealing with, (thats why this blog is such a godsend, to let people know what they are dealing with), you just stay away.

    You take the power into your own hands. You disconnect the phone, you move, and leave no forwarding address. You pretend that the person is dead, which by all definitions of being human, they are. They are not as good as dead, because they still try to stalk you if they can.

    My mother has cyber stalked me, and tried to get the rest of the family to do her bidding, which unfortunately, I've had to cut myself off from the whole family, but its absolutely no loss to me whats so ever.

    The past five years of No Contact, have been the happiest years of my entire life.

    The mistake people make in dealing with those that are evil, is that they engage them. They talk to them, they call them up and try to explain what was done to them, or accuse the N of all their evil doing.

    All of this is pointless, and just goads the N on. Its best to treat them like they dont exist and dont matter.

    Its been five years since I spoke to my mother, and her repeated requests in pretending that she is still a part of my life is down right pathetic.

    Every time the holidays roll around, or if there is a family party where they asking about her grandchildren, she starts stalking me again, because she doesnt have the courage, or sense to tell people the truth, (that she doesnt have a relationship with her daughter or grand children, because she is evil).

    So she will stalk me everywhere, run into me at the grocery store, then tell everyone how we are best friends, etc.

    Ns are sad. Its disturbing how much alike they all act.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I appreciate your comment, however there are a few things you wrote that don't sit well with me. I may be splitting hairs... but here it goes:

      You wrote:
      "But there is a happy ending. Ns can only take the power that you give them. They need your cooperation for them to abuse you, so once you know what you are truly dealing with, (thats why this blog is such a godsend, to let people know what they are dealing with), you just stay away."

      First off, I don't think the end of a relationship - even with a N - is a "happy" one. No normal person wants to be without family. Be it mother, father, sibling(s), spouse, or child. No one wants to have to quit a job, move, change phone numbers, and have their life totally disrupted just to stay away from a N. I think it's pretty heart-breaking what the victims of Ns have to endure in order to go No Contact. And, as you can attest, this often doesn't work because MNs are stalkers.

      Also, no one willingly hands over their power to a N or "cooperates" in the narcissist's abuse. Narcissists "condition" people to accept their abuse. I cannot stress the significance of the N's mind-control, manipulation, and brain-washing techniques. They programme their victims via mental and emotional torture. This programming can be very subtle and can occur over a long or short period of time. Ultimately, Narcissists psychologically terrorize people so severely that the victim's are often left with the "illusion" of powerlessness. That's basically what N abuse is: destroying a person's identity, confidence and self-worth. Victim's don't "give" their power, their "sense" of power is obliterated by the narcissist.

      What's important to understand is that the malignant narcissist's sadistic drive gives them a perverse desire to dominate, and have power over others no matter what. They enjoy taking their victim's freedom away (real or imagined).

      My point is; anyone who has had ANY type of relationship with a MN needs to de-programme. De-programming can only occur when there is mental, emotional, and physical distance from the N - NO CONTACT.

      You wrote:
      "The mistake people make in dealing with those that are evil, is that they engage them. They talk to them, they call them up and try to explain what was done to them, or accuse the N of all their evil doing."

      I don't think it's a "mistake" for people to express righteous anger at a narcissist. I think it's human to be outraged at the narcissist for the cruelty they inflicted. I also don't think the word "accuse" is accurate. I believe when the victim speaks out, they are speaking the truth.

      De-programming from a narcissist can take a long time. It is difficult for normal people to not only process the extent of the abuse, but to wrap their head around the fact that the narcissist is indeed evil. Victims want answers, they want to understand - WHY? Denial is real. Reality sets in slowly, over time. Once reality sets in, most victims understand that it's pointless to get the N to admit their wrongdoings and repent. But they still need to be HEARD, thus the mushrooming of personal blogs on the subject.

      Indifference toward the N is as close as an ending to the N insanity that one can reach. But, it takes a long time to get there. And even if you do reach indifference, you never forget the painful memories. The pain lives on, there is no ending to it.

      I'm not advocating dwelling-on, or staying stuck in the pain... I'm just saying that it's NOT unhealthy to acknowledged that it's been imprinted in the victim... often in their nervous system.

      The psychological and emotional pain caused by a narcissist and the resulting abuse by the callous bystanders etc. etc. can lay dormant, but it sure as hell isn't going anywhere.

      Just my take.

      Delete
    2. Lisette, you just described my personal experience with all of this in a nutshell.

      Delete
    3. What I meant by "mistake" was in dealing with the N. Of course we should be outraged, and rightfully so, but addressing it with the N is not only fruitless, but their response is typically even more abusive than the first infraction.

      Coming to these boards, and expressing yourself, is by no means a "mistake".

      And I still get the sense, that in your post, that you are giving Ns too much power. No one can have their minds controlled, unless they let the N in. Who is this person, do they deserve your respect? Just because someone says something, doesnt mean that its true. In fact, what is so often with Ns, is that they give themselves away, essentially giving YOU power.

      Of course, you dont know this if you think your N is a decent person, but once you know what you are dealing, the power is all yours. who cares what they say. How in the world can someone "psychologically torment" you when you dont even buy into what they are saying. Jeez, I was raised in a very hateful racist community, in addition to my own mother hating me. If I let those people in my head, I would've killed myself by now!

      And I do consider my estrangement a happy ending. I guess because I was only raised in such a horrific family, I dont know what its like to lose a loving family member. I guess I dont dwell on what I dont have, but I relish in what I do. As you can see, happiness is relative, and when I compare my life to my siblings, that dont have the sense, personal power, to "get away", I do in fact feel happy, and that my story has a happy ending.

      Delete
    4. Anon Aug 8, From what I'm reading is that you've never had a close encounter with narc(or maybe it's denial), though you say so. The fact is that a narcs power(munipulation) can be very subtle and underhanded to the point were you don't even know what just happened. You are not immune to this even though you may think so.

      I have never heard of an ACON expressing a "happy ending." There is no happy ending.This is not a fairy tale but real life. Also, being happy is not a continueos state.This world is full of trouble and when someone says that their life is "happy", I say that they are full of sh**. No ones is.Someone may have times of happiness but it is fleeting. Denial and fantasy is huge for people these days. It does seem like you try and convence yourself to think a certain way to make yourself feel better about your situation.

      Delete
    5. point taken, happy means different things to different period. If your take is, "you are full of sh.." then thats your take. It unfortunate, when happiness can also mean that they escaped a bad situation, like an N family. True, there is still misery in the world at large, but what matters here is this particular persons point of view. To some people, happiness means accomplishing a goal, or others have different states of happiness, but still consider themselves happy. I guess the same thing can be said of depression. No matter what, some people will never ever be happy.
      Denial and fantasy, and reality, they are really interconnected. Some forms of denial, keep you from giving up a long love pursuit for example. Some denial, (like in a ACONS childhood) is necessary for survival. I dont know how I would live with out the fantasy that someone in my family cared, (they didnt and they dont, but I can handle that now I am adult).

      I often wonder if Ns are happy. I wonder what their definition is. They seem to have fleeting moments of it, like when they inflict their pain on someone, but they seem to be so distorted and living in a state of paranoi, I wonder if that over shadows the other. (and the fact that their happiness is dependent on the actions of other people).

      It just may be that what takes some people to be happy, is very little. OMG, when I was married to MN husband, for about a year after my freedom, I dont think anyone could pull me down from my cloud. The marriage was that bad, that any occurence, maybe considered shattering to someone else, didnt even register on my radar. Me and my son having a peaceful day with no drama, was happiness.

      so understand, everyone has a point of view, and not everyone shares the same definition of everything.

      I guess I just feel thankful that I escaped. I guess that I feel happy that broke the abusive bond of my family. (they hate women, for example)

      Delete
    6. I think you are confused as to what psychological torture is. Its just not what someone says, its many many things. Like my mother projected her weight issues onto me when I was a kid, of course I did not know what projection was. She would say horrible things about my weight, even though I was a size zero. So that was method 1. Then, she would have the family gang up on me by talking behind my back about my weight, saying how "concerned" she is. Then, since I was the scape goat, my brothers would join the band wagon and call me names about my weight. Then, my mother, would force junk food down my throat. She was a horrible cook, and liked to feed us hotdogs, and crap out of the box, things I would never feed my kids. Knowing how bad this stuff was for me, I would skip dinner, which became a huge fiasco, so eventually, I would eat her dinner, (while eating healthy everywhere else) and then throw it up. N mom LOVED this!! Now, she got to torment me about having an eating disorder, AND MY WEIGHT! My brothers, come to find out, messed with the scale at times too. This is definitely psychological torture. I was able to ignore what my mom said in the beginning, thinking it didnt apply to me. She was fat, not me. But after a while, I got scared that no matter what I did, I would end up as fat as her, as she lied about her exercise and eating habits. when I would exercise, she always had something to say about that too. ..Its taken me YEARS to recover from this, and the only thing I can sumize, is that my mother is jealous of me, and my drive to be healthy. Always was. But boy, that was psychological torture. Messing with the scale? Comparing my body to other girls? (and from other ethnic origins).. Unfair is an unstatement. It was psychological torture.

      Delete
    7. I agree with this... They need your cooperation for them to abuse you.

      I think part of my deprogramming has been realising that I don't HAVE to be an emotional punching bag for anyone. I don't HAVE to keep quiet when people try to blame me for things that THEY have done. But most importantly, I don't HAVE to stay with morons who are invested in making me feel like crap.

      Denial was a coping strategy for me. I believed that the MNs in my life had a conscience and cared about me, even though they repeatedly proved otherwise. Even though it won't stop them from attacking (blaming, slandering, stalking, insulting, threatening, hitting, etc...), I think part of getting out of the scapegoat role is refusing to be considered a 'victim' any longer.

      That's my take on it anyway.

      Delete
    8. Anon @ 18 Feb 2013 18:30 (above)
      Are you an ACON? Were your parents narcissists? You wrote:

      "But most importantly, I don't HAVE to stay with morons who are invested in making me feel like crap."

      Children of narcissists don't have the option of NOT staying with their abusers, unless they want to live on the street and experience a different kind of abuse. Are you saying that children of narcissists cooperated with their parents to be abused? Gee, that's funny, because I was out numbered and abused by 3 narcs in my NFOO and I never once "cooperated" with them. Yeah. I don't remember ever sitting down with the narcs and brainstorming creative ways to abuse me. I don't remember ever saying to the MNs, "Hey, I'm a little tired of extreme emotional abuse... would you please just psychologically torture me for a while... and while you're at it, hit me a few times." I may not have faught back as hard as I could, because when I fought back hard I got abused even harder. It's called survival. Cooperation is the process of working together. MNs don't "cooperate" with anyone, let alone their own children. They do whatever the hell they want.

      It sounds like you're blaming the victim. What exactly do you know about the scapegoat role? Were you the family scapegoat? Because if you were, I doubt you would be making comments like: "I think part of getting out of the scapegoat role is refusing to be considered a 'victim' any longer." The REALITY is, us ACONs were victims of abusive N parents and siblings. It's not a question of refusing "to be considered" a victim. Who the hell would want to be considered a victim? The reality is we were victimized. And as far as getting out of the scapegoat role, many ACONs go NO CONTACT. Getting out of the scapegoat role means getting the hell out of the NFOO. That's survival NOT cooperation.

      Just my TRUTH.

      Delete
    9. I shared my experience and opinion as a child who was a scapegoat of a MN mother, N father and MN sibling. I was emotionally and physically abused until I reached a point 2 years ago, where I struggled with suicide. That was the start of my recovery process.

      Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that there are no victims. I said "part of GETTING OUT of the scapegoat role is refusing to be considered a victim ANY LONGER". In my experience, even after leaving my MN family, the scapegoat role still stuck. Because I kept seeing myself as that defenseless, little kid that HAD to be anyone and everyone's punching bag.

      You disagreeing with my point of view, doesn't give you the right to discredit me or my opinions. If you don't agree with what I have to say or don't want any differing views on your site, just say so or remove my post... there's no need to be so hostile.

      Delete
    10. Grow-up Anon, I quoted you, I did not put words in your mouth. Yeah, I don't agree with your point of view because you blame the victim, you said and I quote: "They need your cooperation to abuse you." You're saying the victim is in part responsible for the abuse. And I hate to break it to you, but disagreeing with someone/arguing a point is all about discrediting their point of view. So again, grow the fuck-up. You obviously came here looking for a fight. The thread you latched on to has been around for a while, and it is a contentious thread at that, where I and others DISAGREED with the original poster's cooperation/blame the victim bull-shit. If you didn't want an argument YOU shouldn't have posted. What the fuck do you expect? That my opinion on the matter would suddenly change? This is MY blog and I fight for MY beliefs here. If you don't like what I have to say, or my style of saying it then leave or go start your own damn blog because there's no way in hell I'm going to tip toe around pinheads who just don't get it. I find it shocking that someone who struggled with suicide because of MN abuse would ever conceive of using the word cooperate. Do you expect me to believe anything you've written? You lack credibility. And do you really think that I haven't considered that you might be the original poster trolling around for the last word? Get lost, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

      Delete
    11. Incidentally, the above Anon of Feb 18, 2013 was a troll who stalked me via my comments on this post. They left multiple comments in response to my "older" comments, and their big finale was leaving the above comment and then calling me a MN because I dared to argue my point on MY blog. They told me not to post their comment if I was going to argue with them. Bossy, bossy troll. Invading blogs and then telling the owner how to run their blog. For any of you who are taking the above comment exchange at face value, just keep in mind that bloggers have to deal with frauds claiming to be victims, and other trolls who are only here because of a personal vandetta or agenda.

      Delete
  38. "My point is; anyone who has had ANY type of relationship with a MN needs to de-programme. De-programming can only occur when there is mental, emotional, and physical distance from the N - NO CONTACT."
    Thank you for making this point...It's only been 11 months since I initiated NC, and I'm still struggling with this. Since the MN in my life was my mother, she conditioned me since birth to put up with her shit, and because of this, I was the poster child for the illusion of powerlessness. As a married woman in my 30s, I still couldn't wrap my brain around the fact that I had the right to stand up for myself, and didn't have to tolerate any of her b.s.
    Now that I'm away from this crazy bitch, I can really see how insane and toxic she was. Had I not cut her out of my life, I'm sure that I would still be just as brainwashed as I always was.

    The second point that I'm glad you raised is the fact that NC sucks in a way. Yes, it's a relief to be away from the crazy, but no one wants to be without a family - I feel pangs of hurt/anger/??? (one more side effect - I don't completely understand what I'm feeling) when I see families all together hanging out by the pool and cooking on the grill. While I'm working on creating a new family with good friends, they have their own lives to live, and it's not quite the same...Who the hell wants to dedicate so much time, effort, and money to avoiding the stalking that is almost bound to occur? Till date, I have to be very careful about how I do things because of the stalking.

    It kind of sucks to know that the pain lives on - I was really kind of hoping that this would diminish, then fade into nothing with time.

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      The pain does fade, but in my experience it doesn't fade way completely. I see N abuse sort of like a cancer. The Ns have infected us, and all we can do is the necessary work to put the hurt and pain into remission. But there are a lot of triggers out there in the environment that can bring it back. Maybe for just a short time, but it will come back none the less. It's like the cancer comes back and needs to be treated again, but not as agressively as the first time. Being stalked by a MN makes you vulnerable, causes anxiety, stress, depression etc.

      All we can do is create safe and healthy environments for our mind, soul and body (nervous system) because if a toxic narc is "out there" or slips through the cracks, we may be triggered. The key is to recognize unsafe people, and if you feel your buttons being pushed, don't react just get away.

      From my experience, predatory PDs can sniff out people who may have issues with anxiety, and they love to test them and see them squirm. Not reacting, watching like a hawk, listening carefully and playing your cards close to the vest is awlays the safest thing to do, especially in new relationships.

      All this stuff takes time and practice, and you will get better and better at it, and the pain will diminish. You are getting stronger every day. Even though sometimes it may not feel like it. It's important to be aware that there are narcs galore out there and you may be susceptable to future attacks. Protect yourself. Stay strong.

      I have never been stalked for more than a few months at a time (with the exception of MN sister's continuous cyber stalking). It sucks to live with this abuse, but you will get stronger as will your coping skills. I get good practice dealing with narcs on this blog, and I know MN sister is out there in the virtual world, but I've learned to hold my ground, and detach mentally and emotionally from the disturbed ones among us.

      All this stuff takes time. Be patient with yourself.

      Delete
    2. Lisset, you are so so brave, enduring the continual cyber stalking. Is your stalker really really smart, and IT savvy? You seem to be able to protect yourself, and seem to be at peace with the situation. I hope to get there some day.

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  39. I completely agree with this article and I've noticed that other people seem afraid of the mean N and redefine his or her behaviour, calling cruelty strength. I fell and bashed out my front tooth and had to get a cap and I was feeling down and insecure because my front tooth was going brown (took time for the dental procedure) and this 'friend' joked about my discomfort and said, "Are you going to get a gold cap? Ha, a gold cap in the front of your mouth, wouldn't that be funny!" She was cruel. There are these joking, laughing Narcissists that 'seem' to have a good sense of humour at other people's expense but they can Never take what they dish, ever. The smile disappears very quickly when someone makes a joke about them. If you dish it back, watch them become quickly insulted. Some even become raging. Suddenly they are not laughing anymore.

    I've read many articles about being genuine and having the 'courage' to be vulnerable and I say, don't buy that bullshit. It is insane to be vulnerable around unsafe people. Be vulnerable around people you can trust. This means you don't talk to everyone about your problems. If you did it in the past, stop doing it now. You don't tell everyone that you were abused as a kid. Not everyone has to hear your life story or how people took advantage of you. N's will see you as potential prey; if those other abusers got away with it, I can too. Don't feel ashamed of yourself for being human; we all get burned sometimes. Adopt the motto: that was then and this is now. Abusive people will try to get you to doubt yourself. You're an alcoholic and you'll always be one, you took it before and you'll take it again and because you feel vulnerable about your problems with booze or boundaries, their words will make you feel afraid, like you can't trust yourself, like maybe they are right about you. The fact is, the N isn't right, they don't even know you and they don't want to know you, they just want to see you crawling in the mud so they can have a good laugh. Follow the day by day motto; today I won't drink, today I won't give in, today I won't let the past bother me....this keeps you in the moment, even if you have to remind yourself every five minutes to keep you focused on the here and now.

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    1. Anonymous,

      Yes! What the narcs find funny is seeing people hurt, embarassed or in pain. They really like the "slipping on a banana peel" type humour. I've seen that little smile and evil smirk many times when I have been in pain. I remember tripping and falling down an embankment while the MN sat on the beach. He just watched me falling with that smirk on his face. When I finally composed meyself and stood up and brushed myself off, he just smirked and with a triumphant laugh-like "hmpf" turned and faced the water again. When I arrived at the log he was sitting on, did he ask me how I was? Nah. My fall wasn't even brought up, he made sure of that, as he immediately started blathering on about himself before I could even sit down. But this creep had absolutely no sense of humour when it came to himself. If I had laughed at HIM falling he would have had a fucking tantrum and told me off. It's not something I would do anyway because I don't find people tripping and falling funny. Actually, I would find a narc getting hurt quite satisfying. They don't seem to ever get what's coming to them.

      Yes, any perceived weakness in you will be exploited by an N. I knew an N who was mad at his roommate who was an alcoholic who had recently decided to quit. So what does the narc do? He brings home a big case of beer and offers one to his roommate. He told me they both ended up get shit faced that night. If the roommate had not announced that he was quitting, the cheapo narc never would have shelled-out for a case of beer.

      Staying in the here and now is good. I sometimes try and keep myself in the moment by asking myself, how is everything right now? Well, right now I'm safe, well fed, comfortable. The present moment is good. It takes conscious work.

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  40. Wow, yes! My ex girlfriend was a narcissist - a stealth narcissist - she could be sweet and self deprecating in public. She loved to make a show of affection in front of other people she wanted to impress, but in out of earshot she would lean in to me and say things like 'ugh your aftershave is awful!' and then smile! Way to make me feel good babes!

    She would do subtle and not so subtle things - like in the latter category the day I brike my shoulder in a fall and her reaction was 'that's ruined my ******* night....I'm getting another drink'. Totally callous. I gave her several chances and too her tears as genuine - 'I miss you, I love you...' which really means YOU MISS ME - YOU LIVE ME!

    She has a way of twisting reality to suit her. So after the last time we split up - because I dared to say something negative about her - she turned into an angry monster. As I predicted she got in touch some months later - she was drunk (not uncommon) and she sounded almost crazy/hysterical at times. She'd had a bad evening (as she often did) told me that she had tried but had been unable to forget me, she missed me, she even managed to whisper 'I love you' at one stage - she was a very corny actress (but Meryll Streep in her mind I'm sure. By this time I was on to her anyway, so I said 'I love you too' (which is true in the sense that I love humanity, so I wasn't lying), I knew that's what she wanted to hear. At the same time she kept banging on her old drum about how important her career is, how well she'd done to get to where she was, how she'd struggled and worked hard, blah, blah, blah - and all this was supposed to impress me, for the 1000th time just what a special person she was - and how lucky I was that she was ringing me at 1am pissed out of her head and thrusting her love upon me in this roundabout and almost insulting way.

    I skyped her the next day and she said something that underlines everything that narcissism is about, she said - 'I love you, but that is so weak of me'. We met 'to exchange books' - and I fully expect that she thought I was going to go back to believing anything she had to say! That I was going to be the sucker that thought she was God's gift.

    I asked her 'what is it that you miss about me?' - she didn't say a word (you see there isn't really very much going on in their heads- despite all the pretension). Finally her answer was: 'Did I say that?' - this after a mere twenty four hours or so of her saying repeatedly that she missed me. During our conversation she constantly contradicted or denied things she had said before. She simply couldn't lose face, she had to be in control of everything and would lie and try to send you crazy before relinquishing one bit of control. In everything it was all about her - her music, her movies, her dreams. Anything I said, liked, knew about - was dismissed. In the end I just walked away and told it to her straight, I couldn't be with someone like that. These people are hypocrites, liars, actors, users, abusers - they just don't SEE other people as anything but extensions of themselves.

    This is a great site - some good comments. People need to be aware of narcissists in their midst!

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    1. I can really relate to this. I broke NC to see my dad in the hospital, (which was a mistake), and my mother was acting as flighty as ever. After the visit, she started calling me and talking like old times, as if 3 years hadnt gone by, talking about all this stupid stuff that no one gives a rats ass about. She them complained about the turmoil and how stupid she looked that she didnt have any pictures of the grandkids for this special event my grand mother had, but how "she got though it".. I think she was trying to insult me, or whatever.

      My jaw just dropped, becuase being NC, I had been away from my moms hysterics, and the whole experience was surreal, just witnessing her three years later. I thought to myself, "did she always act so stupid?"

      My mother is huge on the big words too, like on my birthday, "we MISS YOUR PRESENCE!" and "we LOVE YOU!" coupled in between demands since, "we are still family" she constantly says.

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  41. So very true. For years I knew something was wrong, the rages, the jealousy, the profound lack of empathy. When I was told I had terminal cancer my mn wife emotionally tortured me for a year before taking my kids away, but I found my old inner strength that used to be normal before I met her and now I have a real chance to recover because of a new medical development. Wouldn't living a long, good life be the ultimate revenge.

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    1. Best revenge ever! That is great news, and I am happy for you!

      Maybe removing a malignant narcissist from one's life could be considered a new medical development.

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  42. As I was reading the blogs about the evil "looks" these monsters abuse us with, it triggered some memories regarding my narc. ex-husband. One of the most humiliating and hurtful things that I remember: On the day of our wedding I had a makeup artist do my makeup. I wanted to be so beautiful for him. The makeup artist and I collaborated and I wanted my face to be so pretty for him. He was already waiting at the church when I rushed in to meet him. As I came in the front door, he was coming toward me and I beamed with joy to see my soon-to-be-husband. He looked so handsome and I was beside myself with joy. As one blogger stated, "I will never - and I repeat never - forget the look" on his face as I put my arms out to hug him with a big smile and leaned in for a kiss. He looked at me with a frozen, horrible, disgusted look on his face and he pulled back from me and wouldn't kiss me. He just stared at me and said nothing. I said, "What's wrong?" He said, "Your makeup. It's way too much isn't it? Who did it?" I was so stunned, I didn't know what to do. It was a small family wedding, 2nd wedding for us both. I was 50 and he was 53. I almost felt like apologizing to everyone and walking out. To this day, 8 years later, I still remember the evil sting of that rejection on my wedding day. And this monster continued to bring this up every so often for years, and his grown kids would laugh about it (they are narcs too). "Remember your makeup?" "Remember what dad said about your makeup?" And they would laugh about it. I was so brainwashed and tortured by that time that I just took the humiliation and pain and felt like a total disappointment to my husband and it hurt my pride as a woman. Long story short (I could write a book) he divorced me. He is living with another woman in the home that we used to share. It's been two years now and I am rebuilding my life. I never, ever would have known that evil existed in every day life to this extent had I not met and married him - that human beings could become so evil in their treatment of others, their own families and spouses. And, yes, no contact does suck. I am alone (trying to date and move on, but with no success thus far) while he has a partner and has a full social schedule. Granted, it is only a matter of time before he drains his new victim and destroys that relationship, as he did ours. My advice: Stay in the moment and push forward. Do not let these demons destroy us. I cry when I have to and then I get up and do something positive to help me move forward. Thanks to everyone for the great, supportive blogs. They have helped me so much.

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    1. What a horrific story. Such a classic N move to pull that on your wedding day, when your guard would be completely and totally down. At least now with your new perspective, you can see what triggered such a response from your malignant N ex husband. You looked beautiful, and he knew it. You were probably more than beautiful, radiant and glowing even, filled with self confidence. This was the trigger that made him pounce, I know it. It was his way of one upping you, being the dominate one, letting you know your place. And then to bring up the incident years later, was just another way of keeping you in line, because of course you would remember the hurt inflicted, and emotional traumatic memories are hard, if not impossible to shake, especially after this consistent reconditioning.

      But now you know, if are feeling broken, and not empowered, the story behind "the look". My ex N husband pulled the same crap, acting horrific on our wedding day, it actually started at the reception. My mother is also a malignant N, so between the two of them trying to control things, I was a huge mess. Its taken me a lot of years to get over the pain inflicted on my wedding day, by both these Ns. They knew that my guard would be down. They went in for the kill. They could not stand that I was center of attention.

      I am only feeling better now, because I know what was behind their actions, well, now that I know the type of people they are. To this day, my mom is attracted to huge events and tries to take over and control everything, just so she can humiliate her target.

      I know NC sucks right now, but it does better. Right now, you are just in mourning, and is definitely a most appropriate response for what you've gone through.

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  43. No wonder the Ns in my life, which is pretty much everyone I know; including my doctors, have ramped up their N behavior since I've become disabled and unable to work. No freaking wonder! OMG. I feel like I should have known this, but even college courses on psychology don't teach us to prepare for this. I think it was q on here who said that learning about Ns is so intense because of the constant revelations we have. That is how I feel with every post you make, Lisette. Thank you so much for exposing the truth about Ns. I'm drinking in your blog like a much-needed balm.

    Every sentence or so that I read here conjures up people from life and I think, 'that's what Karen did to me!' or (my sister, mother, cousin, aunt, “friend” etc...) I'm seeing my whole life in a brand new way and I'm finally feeling validated and not stupid, weak or flawed beyond all repair. I finally see that I'm okay after all and that it's the Ns in my life who are character disordered.

    Most importantly, I know that my instinct to stay away from them as much as possible is right on. I've learned that my soul just won't put up with abuse and what I'm reading is giving me real validation and soothing my guilt about stepping way back from the Ns in my life. - Jean Jeanie

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    1. Jean Jeanie, thank you for your post. I hope you realize how positive and strong you sound. Your comment really rocks and whether you are aware of it or not, I'm sure this attitude is reflected in your real life as well. All the power to you! As Anon below said - stay strong! AND stay away!

      "I feel like I should have known this, but even college courses on psychology don't teach us to prepare for this."

      I hear that. I don't know what can prepare us for the revelation that our family/loved-ones are extremely dangerous to us, especially when we are vulnerable. I don't know any courses that teach people how to accept the reality that their parents/siblings/friends etc. are evil MNs... or classes that help people come to terms with a lifetime surrounded by these nasty monsters. Our situations are truly unique, but not unique enough.

      The good part is, most of us discover the truth one way or another, and you've just unearthed it. I am so glad that you have found the validation that you, me, all of us need to feel empowered. Welcome!

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  44. Anon 21:20,
    I just read your comment and in case you read this, I want to give you my condolences. I'm glad you got away from that evil N but I'm so sorry for all you had to go through. Stay strong - Jean Jeanie

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  45. Thank you for your warm welcome, Lisette. Yours is one of the best blogs I've seen on this topic and your kind comments mean a lot to me because I'm cycling through so many different emotions all the time and my Ns often have me spinning and feeling out of control - I feel I've become quite the hot mess these days. I continually have to bite back hard on my anger and when I successfully suppress it, then horrible guilt creeps in because I've gone NC with some people and LC with others, and that's something I never thought I'd have to do with anyone in my life, let alone, practically everyone in my life! Oh boy....

    Unlike you and others here, I haven't had MNs in my life, only Ns, but that's been really rough. I can't even fathom what you all have been through and are going through. My heart really goes out to you. It just isn't fair.

    I think the interwebs are the best source of information and support for us victims of Ns. I'm also an ACON which has been a continual issue throughout my life. I've had many friends, lovers, coworkers and others whom I can now identify as being on the N spectrum; but the worst problem I'm dealing with these days is the result of marrying into a cult-like family (thanks to your blog I've come to realize that's the perfect definition for them) and I'm trying my best to navigate through that situation. There weren't really red flags for the first few years, but I've come to realize that all the members of this family are either verbally, emotionally and sometimes physically abusive Ns or passive-aggressive silent partners. And yes, it is all about CONTROL.

    I'll continue to read and learn and I'm doing the NC/LC. I'm glad I found this place as it's validating to find others who know what I'm going through. - Jean Jeanie

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  46. Jean Jeanie, any variation of N is rough, especially as an ACON. None of us "chose" the original Ns, we get stuck with them. Then as you, me, many of us can attest, our upbringing just sets us up for more of the same. And by the sounds of things, not only have you been surrounded by Ns all your life, you married into another N family. I feel your pain. You are in the midst of a serious mental/emotional/physical house cleaning. And I know of the rage you speak of. No need to suppress your anger here. Drinks are on the house for Hot Messes!

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  47. Sweet. Thank you :) Margaritas all around for my fellow sufferers. - Jeanie

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  48. Clink, TW. I really appreciate your comments on this blogsite too. - Jeanie

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  49. "The Narcissist - let's call her Sherry" The best laugh I've had all day, Lisette.

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  50. Amazing and true.I was raised with several narc brothers.And possibly both my parents being narcs.Although I'm sure about my mother being a narcissist.I was systematically abused and used and debased as a child by my older narcissist bro.But the abuse did not end there.It continues today,because I'm technically forced to deal with them still. I've had great opportunities to get even with them.And I have in the past.Unfortunately I've developed narcissistic qualities in myself.A natural human self defense mechanism almost all humans have.Predator can become prey if the prey evolves into a predator also.I know it sounds weird.Although I know I have narcissistic qualities,I'm not the same as them.Because I became that way in order to protect myself.They were born that way.I have one brother similar to my situation.He's not a full blown narcissist but he developed narcissistic qualities in order to protect his sanity as well.like me.Also it's true.I tend to attract narcissistic people into my life again and again making believe they are my friends.It's true that they smell out vulnerability in a person and slowly move in to control and abuse the intended victim.Unfortunately narcs are everywhere.In strange almost demonic abundance.Please.How do you stop them for good and keep them away from a person.Thank you for you great article.You are helping to free many many many people from abuse.

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    1. Damian, you may be confusing self-respect with narcissism. Knowing that you have value as a person and you must defend yourself against abuse and injustice is not narcissistic. It's a right. Everyone on this earth has a right to self-preservation, and in some cases, as with malignant narcissists, we must fight for that right tooth and nail. It doesn't necessarily make you a predator if you have to go after someone who has wronged you. If you weren't wronged I doubt you would be going around preying on others. Embrace your ability to get even. I wish it was possible for more people to get even with narcs. It takes a hell of a lot of stamina to do it.

      "Unfortunately narcs are everywhere and in strange almost demonic abundance" - I like that sentence!

      How do you stop them for good and keep them away from a person? I'll let you know when I find out. And I will find out!

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  51. How do I become a member of 'House of Mirrors'?

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