Thursday, 29 May 2014

Narcissists Need A Host To Parasitize



The Violence committed by a serial bully/narcissist/ASSHOLE is almost entirely psychological, for psychological violence leaves no scars and no physical evidence. Most commonly the violence takes the form of verbal abuse and emotional abuse including trivial nit-picking and criticism, constant fault finding combined with a simultaneous refusal to recognize, value, acknowledge and praise. Manipulation, isolation and exclusion are other favourite tactics, as is feigning victimhood, persecution, especially when held accountable.
The objectives of serial bullies are Power, Control, Domination and Subjugation. These are achieved by a number of means including disempowerment, the stimulation of excessive levels of fear, shame, embarrassment and guilt, manipulation (especially of emotions and perceptions), ritual humiliation and constant denial. When you live with someone who is constantly denying what they said or did a day ago, or an hour ago, or even a minute ago, it drives you crazy. When the symptoms of injury to your health start to become apparent, the bully will tell others you have a “mental health problem." You may be mad, but this is not mad insane, this is mad angry.


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71 comments:

  1. I remember thinking to myself, "is this happening? is she really changing tactics, finding new ways to be cruel?" I was just a teenager but I remember thinking like this. But then I repressed it all, just desperate for her approval and so sorry for her all the time. Thanks for this concise, clear, post.

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    1. Mine changed tactics all the time, even sometimes feigning niceness to get me unsettled and off-guard. Of course desperate for every little crumb I lapped it up as a teen.

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  2. If they are not getting the desired effect, they'll switch things up. They do what works, and they won't let up until they win. Winning usually means feeding off our emotions.

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    1. So true. I played robot mode with Ncousin the other night and he felt the no-supply so much that his last
      words to me were to stroke me for something nice I did for him ten years ago. Fortunately, I was smart enough to just accept his gratitude and not make too much of it. These "people" will do anything, dip back into psychological files they compiled on you years ago to look for a way to make you a good source of supply again.

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    2. Oh yeah, when all else fails, they use flattery. Good thing not to take it seriously, it's a way for them to make us drop our guard. You're right about them keeping psychological files on us... That worked on her, he responds to this. We are nothing but a source of supply to those "people."

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  3. This is by Kathy Krajco:

    "Who is needier than a narcissist? More dependent?

    Their dependence is the dependence of any parasite on its host. This dependence is the very essence of their so-called “relationship” with you. It is the relationship you have with a tick or disease. That’s all there is to it. Nothing for YOU in it at all.

    You CAN walk away, in almost every case.

    I’ll never forget the moment I realized this. Here I was, clinging to a narcissistic abuser for dear life. I’ll never forget where I was and what had just happened when the little voice in my head said, “You need THAT?”

    No I didn’t. I immediately went out and bought new locks.

    A few weeks later I began to notice how good I was feeling. I was astounded by the fact that, while I was with the narcissist, I had gotten so used to feeling bad, that I wasn’t even aware of feeling bad anymore. But now, when I began to feel good, I realized how bad a case of hookworm anemia makes you feel.

    Indeed, when you get rid of a parasite, you are getting rid of a disease."

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  4. Kathy truly had a way with words.

    I relate so much to the part about being so used to feeling bad, that you're not aware of feeling bad anymore. That is, until you rid yourself of the disease. Now I know damn well when someone is deliberately trying to get under my skin... Like a tic.

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  5. It must be exhausting to work so hard at not being human.

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  6. Work so hard at not being human and work so hard to appear human. It must be freakin exhausting to be a lie. It's a wonder they live so long.

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  7. It's not just being used to feeling bad, it's taking the blame for the abuse! I had this borderline/n-"friend" who had me convinced that everything was my fault all the time. When I finally broke ties with her, I felt like a new person! I was almost 40, and it was the last time I let myself be duped by someone like this. Well, almost the last time (argggh). My Nmother had me CONVINCED that I was just a bad person whom she just couldn't fix. I used to sit in my shrink's office (when I was 20/ the first of many shrinks) and say "No, it's me. I'm a bad person." This shit is so hard to get over. It sticks to you for decades. Before this blog, Lisette, I never had a way of talking about it. thankyouthankyou thank you. P.S. "I wish you peace." heheh. (It never gets old)

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    1. Taking the blame for the abuse is what made me feel bad, I thought something was wrong with me. Then I learned about NPD and realized that all these assholes treat everyone badly (sooner or later) and it wasn't me, it was them. - that's my biggest regret, putting up with these pieces of shit for any length of time. I have gotten over a ton of narc infestations, but the family narc abuse really sticks. I don't think it is something I will ever get over. Their zero valuation of me set me up to accept poor quality everything in life. I'll never get a do-over of all those years. They stole from me and I despise them for that. There's no justice. I almost throw-up when I think of the way I used to let people treat me, and the kind of behavior I accepted. D.E.M., you are very welcome re: the blog, and I wish you peace... truly... not the douchebag kind.

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    2. What sticks is they got 'your' inheritance and it's that that sticks. When you let go of the money then you will be able to let go of them. No contact means no contact and that means renouncing everything to do with your 'family' including whatever money 'might' be left to you in their will.

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    3. Vince, it's a beautiful day. I rode my bike to the beach, I'm relaxing, enjoying the sunshine, eating an ice cream cone and listening to someone play guitar. When I get home to my laptop, I'm going to rip you a new one... Until then.

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    4. Vince, I think you need to heal and work through your issues that make you callous to victims of abuse, and sympathetic to predators.

      I truly hope you find peace.

      [[[[[[[[[[HUGS]]]]]]]]]]]]]

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    5. Hey, that's not fair! You ripped me a new one and not him!

      I can't believe that. Reducing all that abuse and trauma to money. Actually, I can believe it. That's the (or one) whole point of your blog, that those people exist.

      I just can't believe I now have a second asshole, that's all! How do I use it? Do I need special underpants?

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    6. Ha! You have a good sense of humor.

      Heidi, you're right, I didn't rip him a new one because I couldn't be bothered. I don't need to justify anything to this ignoramus. Thanks for nailing exactly what he did: reduced all the abuse and trauma to money. He can serve as a poster boy for all the stupid, callous assholes out there.

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    7. Just read your reply to me here. Overcome with shared sadness for you.... all those lost years. So much life endured through a fog of anxiety and a sense of worthlessness. What a waste. Yes, I wish you peace too --an inner calm, an inner voice that never, ever berates you, ever again.

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    8. Hey, Lisette, I'm so happy and relieved not to be fighting! I was actually stressing about it... that's how much participating here means to me. I appreciate your blog so much, because it's so grounding for ANYONE who has any sort of contact with malignant or suspected possibly malignant narcs. And it raises awareness, so that us lucky ones can be alert to be able to do something to help out here in real life if we notice something a bit off in our community. It's also so important for protecting one's own children, for example against rogue teachers, clergy, sports coaches, youth leaders (fortunately, I have no reason for concern for my kid's safety in my own community... just in case anyone in my community spots this and gets paranoid).

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    9. D.E.M., thank you for the kind words. You put people like Vince to shame.

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    10. I will admit. I wouldn't get it either if I had not spent my life being denied the foundation for a normal or decent life for the same reasons other people in other families were rewarded. And that reason being that we were the children of our parents and they theres. And after decades spent watching normal people have normal lives and knowing the only reason they got what we didn't was that the powers that be, or the Stork, or the Goddamn Easter Bunny or what ever dropped them off at somebody elses house and not ours. The money my mother held over my head was taken right out of my ass. She didn't work for it. She merely inherited it. And she inherited it from the very people who assured me that it was my due as much as it was hers. More so, because I didn't bankrupt the family coffers with astronomical legal fees by having to be bailed out of a long and expensive murder trial. We had assets left over despite my mother, not because of her. If her bequeathing our legacy to my slutty first wife doesn't illustrate a narcissist's vindictive nature than I don't know what will.

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    11. Vince is one of those guys who likes to act like he is above being influenced by money who ends up getting crushed by a coke machine while having a tantrum after it keeps their change and doesn't give them a coke.

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    12. Vince is one of those guys who snaps "It's only money!" when he's busy spending other people's money.

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    13. Q1605, the narcissist's vindictive nature is right. The wills these narc parents leave behind just cements who they were in life and how they treated their children. Your mother left you and your sister a lousy $100 (which is a bigger insult than getting nothing) and then gave all of it, every last drop, including family heirlooms and burial plots to some crazy slag who wronged you. If that's not a mother taking one last opportunity to hurt her children, I don't know what is.

      Normal loving parent do not use wills as a weapon to harm their children, but abusive narcissists do. Their wills reflect their lifelong patterns of abuse, neglect, deprivation, and favoritism and end up being proof positive of the maltreatment towards one or more adult children.

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    14. So, the family with MN mother whose son shot himself I told you about recently.... MN-mother holds big family inheritance over daughter-in-law like a giant carrot that permits her access to grandchildren. I have told said daugher-in-law that the alcoholic golden-child (brother of suicide) who is now her ex-husband (and a giant narc himself) is going to get all the money. NONE of it will go to her kids, in my humble opine. It's all a ruse. GoldenChild Narc will get it; he'll marry some trash, and the money will proceed that way. I'm sure of it. MNs always dangle money as giant lures.

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    15. I am sorry that happened to you Q, I think a mother giving a cheating ex-wife the proceeds of a will is beyond the pale. My NM has all the sycophants bowing before her, hoping to get their cut, kissing her butt for eternity. I had an aunt warn me I was cut out, and then changed her tune later. I sat and thought to myself, if this woman treats me like trash now why would she be fair when it came to her will?

      One thing I want to vomit over now is how my mother acted like she was superior over me and I think to myself, all she did was "win" the insurance Lotto with my father dying young, and leave me nothing, and she even got her job from him too, via nepotism. No one gave me any breaks, I was left to rot in poverty, sure a few crumbs were thrown later years ago to keep me in the fold but that's all it was. I have had a life of worrying about groceries in the house or trying to get places while being unable to walk well, without a car, worrying now my old one will break down, while she shops til she drops, has a second home I Florida and spent years looking down her nose at me, calling me a "loser". The whole thing makes me sick. Q, that experience is awful, I can't even imagine. I hope you are living a financially stable life at last now so the suffering is not too much. I feel sick worrying I will be in the streets one day or something and there she will be cackling at me. I wake up everyday wondering why I have to be so poor and thinking of my husband's past bosses who decided to ruin our life. I can barely think straight about the whole issue anymore.

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    16. Speaking of wills too, my N father used to call me and my brother up and tell us we were being cut down to 15% from both parents, every time he got mad with the rest going to the GC. I think about some of this stuff and how absolutely sick it was. Here is a fun law in the USA, the courts don't have to file all wills. I am sure there is untold damage done to people via wills. Most of the narcs are rich too, wheeling, dealing and out right stealing for all their cash.

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  8. Check this out!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior-altering_parasites_and_parasitoids

    Some forms of parasites and parasitoids cause changes in the behaviour of their hosts by directly affecting the hosts' nervous system. The acquired or modified behaviors assist the parasite in transmitting or spreading itself to additional hosts, and while the mechanism of change may be harmless to the host, the acquired or modified behaviors typically accelerate the host's demise.

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    1. Creepy. "The acquired or modified behaviors assist the parasite in transmitting or spreading itself to additional hosts and can accelerate the host's demise." An insidious parasite is exactly what they are - they need us to feed. It says something when being raised by a narcissist(s) leaves your nervous system compromised and that leads to an early grave.

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  9. That three layer model is mind boggling: a tiny little human deep-deep-deep down inside, surrounded by a malignant tumour of a psyche which seeks to destroy targeted humans, surrounded by a veneer of human-like affect for non-targeted humans. This model seems to imply that these MN's are beyond repair, since what can a helpless baby do to break through the big ugly tumour? Or maybe all human souls are the same size, from conception through to old age, so no soul is a helpless baby. The latter is what I'm inclined to believe, given the strength of you ACO(m)Ns in overcoming instead of succumbing to the evil like some of your siblings did, and like your own parents (if their stories are credible) did in their own upbringing.

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    1. A malignant tumour of a psyche about sums it up. Too bad the tumour is benign to them and deadly to us.

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    2. I dunno about that. The little tiny soul can't be doing too well in there, all shrivelled up and starved of human love. The tumour is benign to ITSELF, but deadly to ALL human souls, both ours and the MN's shrivelled little raisin souls. It makes me feel very sad for the little human beings trapped inside, and I think they do need some kind of help to get out, but at the same time, I understand that very few people in the world, and especially not ACONs fighting for their own life, are able to personally and directly give that help. I think the only way they can be helped is via culture, i.e. beautiful classical culture. Only by surrounding everyone by the highest ideals of beauty could the tiny human soul be given the courage to make the arduous trek through the toxic wasteland of the MN psyche and join with the rest of us free souls. But we can only realize this beautiful culture if we are not being poisoned or corrupted by MN shenanigans. For ACONs, this means NC is all the more vital. Others whose soul is in very good health, and know the MN beast well, can withstand some contact, and I say leave it to them to make contact with the trapped little soul. Maybe I'm one of them, maybe not. I know I'm one of the lucky ones to have grown up only with a clueless but basically fairly good NF, not one of those horrible malignant ones. My aspergers personality also gives me a certain immunity from the malignant ones, since their enticements just naturally don't interest me much, so I'm not fighting anything to avoid them. The world would certainly be a happier place if all those little souls were free! With the highest respect to you ACOmNs who have had to grow up in hell, I hope that those of us whose childhood was either happy or merely a bit dysfunctional can use your first-hand knowledge, wisdom and insight so we can take action to bring about this change.

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    3. Heidi, your lack of experience with malignant narcissism shows in your ridiculous theories. Those of us who have lived it, tend not to over-analyze or wax poetic about this stuff: "I think the only way they can be helped is via beautiful classical culture." What are you smoking? News flash! Narcissists cannot be helped and their children and family waste a lot of blood, sweat and tears figuring that out. You seem to enjoy giving yourself a pat on the back. Because of your asperger you're immune from the malignant ones? Because of your asperger gaslighting wouldn't work on you? I know aspies who are ACONs and they would likely disagree with you. I wonder how "immune" a child Heidi would be (trapped) in a family surrounded by malignant narcissists. Why is it the people with zero experience with malignant narcissism seem to think they have it all figured out? The adult children of narcissists still scratch their heads at how evil these freaks are. Evil exists, Heidi. That's something we ACONs have figured out.

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    4. Does Heidi think we can be fixed by a trip to the museum, or the narcissist?

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    5. I believe she means the narcissist. She sympathizes with the MNs and their tiny shriveled little soul that is starved of human love. She feels bad for the human being trapped inside and thinks they need help to get out. I guess she's suggesting a trip to the museum, followed by the symphony might help the malignant narcissist. It's the same line of thinking that all they need is a puppy and a musical instrument.

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    6. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause offence. I've been trying so hard not to, but was caught off guard by the idea of there being a tiny little shrivelled raisin of a human soul trapped inside the malignant tumour of a psyche. It seems to me that the malignant tumour is the entity that is evil, while the little human soul might not be. I agree that there is no way to dig the little soul out, or surgically remove it from the tumour (which would be more practical than the other way around, would it not?). I agree that the only way an MN is ever going to change is if they choose to, if their little soul decides to borrow its way out, against all odds. And it is against all odds, because the prevalent culture today feeds the twisted psyche, not the little soul. We need a culture that feeds the soul, we all do. But guess what? A bunch of powerful MN's compromised the classical culture hundreds of years ago. Sorry if I'm about to sound like a loony again.

      I can't remember exact dates or indeed centuries, but the story goes like this. Mozart and all those great composers wrote their music to be sung by the various human voices (soprano, tenor, etc) using their three to four registers (ranges of tones). The tuning of the musical instruments was crucial, because words to songs were made to be sung in a higher or lower register, in order to express meaning. The tuning was C=256Hz, which is about A=432. So what did these evil MN's do (apart from castrate their choirboys to retain the soprano voices - which is beyond terrible)? They bumped the official tuning up half a tone to A=440. Just enough that the opera singers had two choices: either sing words in the wrong register, causing them to lose their expressive meaning; or strain their voices to keep in the correct register, thus wrecking their vocal chords and their careers. Obviously, the former option had to win out. Violins and puppies aren't even real violins and puppies anymore.

      I'm sorry, I'm probably not doing a very good job of not causing any more offence. A large part of my interest in MN's is from the perspective of knowing how they hold so much political and cultural power in the world. A large part also comes from being directly or indirectly involved as an adult with definite N's and possibly MN's. Your blog reminds me what is at stake, and keeps me grounded and on guard against suspected MN's. The more people who are switched onto their existence/presence, the better.

      And just to clarify what I said about aspergers giving some immunity... I definitely, completely, utterly meant that to apply strictly to independent adults with a secure and healthy psyche. I think that aspie kids would fare much worse than NT kids in an MN family, because they'd be guaranteed to be a scapegoat. My reasoning for saying aspies have some immunity is because the NT culture tends to feed narcissism, whereas us aspies... well, the robot thing is something that comes very naturally to us.

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    7. Heidi, thanks for clarifying. No offense taken. Some people take pity on the narcissist to the point of bashing the victim, you didn't do that and I get what you're saying about something human being trapped inside the malignant narcissist. We've all caught glimpses of their shrivelled little raisin soul. What's frustrating and enraging is that the narcissist has free will, just like the rest of us, and they consistently "choose" to feed the devil inside because it makes them feel powerful and superior. They are a product of all their selfish choices and these choices come at a great cost to others.

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    8. Aspergers doesn't give immunity to narcissism. I am an Aspie and an ACON and know that is not true. Maybe Aspies can float above narcs out in society who bore them with their focus on appearances and status, but at home with a malignant narc out to destroy them as a scapegoat which by the way Aspergers makes one more likely to be treated as---NO WAY. Mozart for all his lovely music was a freemason, and not going to save anyone. Many narcs and sociopaths started that whole castrati nonsense. I do not feel sorry for a shriveled little soul, in many ways they chose to become what they became, choosing evil instead of goodness along the way. Even those in at least traditional "classical culture" will admit that. The wicked aren't wicked because they are misunderstood or "uneducated", but because they chose evil

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    9. I am also an Autistic ACoN. I think one reason that so many of us are so reluctant, and take so long to acknowledge the pure evil of malignant narcissists is because we [Autistics] tend to be "rules kids," Despite the horrific treatment by NM, I still clung to the belief that she must have at least "a thimbleful of love" for me,[remember, Lissette? You helped me to see that. It hurt like hell to face the truth, but thanks. I really needed it] Why did I, FOR NO REASON hang onto the belief she loved me? I think that it was because not loving your own child is "against the rules," My NM does not, and never did love me. She, like most of my FOO, are evil monsters. Heidi, you are a beautiful writer, but I believe you are doing a grave disservice to shriveled raisins. I can think of NOTHING to compare to the evil of an NMs' soul.

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    10. Exactly, an autistic kid in an MN family is guaranteed to be the scapegoat. Exactly, it had to be MN's who started such perversions as the "castrati nonsense", when there have always been perfectly good women who could sing. And agreed, we should stop insulting raisins, cockroaches, fleas, and all the other innocent fruit and insects out there.

      Of course, feeling sad for the little human soul is contingent on the hypothesis that there is actually a human soul in there. Maybe there isn't. Maybe it's a demon or devil soul. Maybe there was a human soul at birth, but it died, or was snuffed out. I do get the sense that they run on autopilot, that their brain constitutes an artificial intelligence making the choices for them. I think maybe that artificial intelligence program could be what we call the demon that is possessing them? Is it possible that supposed glimpses of their soul are that AI demon?

      In any case, I do believe that the AI/demon absolutely hates true classical culture (this is why those medieval MN's subverted and perverted it). They like music that sounds exciting to their senses, like a kind of mental masturbation, but they absolutely hate anything that sheds light and truth. This extends not only to music and art, but also to philosophy and science. At the same time, all human souls need a good feed of true classical culture. So what I propose is the following.

      It's not violins and puppies. For fuck's sake, don't let them anywhere near any puppies. This is mega big picture stuff.

      The prison of the future: everything is perfectly humane; food is nutritious and pleasant; bedding is comfortable; prison guards who are not prone to the malignancy keep everyone safe... maybe actual robots? Hello, Japan? Or maybe German Shepherds or Rottweilers, if we must have puppies.

      Starting with the ones who hold power in politics and international banking, round up all the malignant narcissists and put them in these prisons. There'll be actual crimes to justify putting them there! In some cases, genocide. Then after fixing the mess they've left the world's economies in, build more of these prisons, and throw in more and more of the lower caste MN's, as we find them.

      Now the catch is, that the only entertainment they will have access to, will be the most beautiful and truest of classical culture. Be it music, art, science, geometry, theology, philosophy - particularly the obscure stuff that's been repressed down the centuries by the MN's. It's either that, or be alone with themselves.

      I think it would drive the MN's AI/demon psyche completely insane. It would be absolute punishment for that evil psyche. Yet IF there is a trapped human soul in there, maybe an "infant soul" who is not as strong as us older souls, then it would be getting fed. If not, then the evil soul is getting punished. It's win-win!

      I wouldn't think it would be safe to let them out of prison as soon as it looks like the soul has been rescued. Just leave them in there, since it's perfectly humane. Maybe after about 50 years of research, we might know enough about when it's safe to let them out.

      The other great thing about these prisons is that, should mistakes be made and innocent people get sent to prison, well it would be a pretty nice life in there, to be free of the pressures of outside life, and to have a smorgasbord of the best classical culture civilization has to offer.

      So that's the idea I was talking about when I initially invoked puppies and violins.

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    11. I can cross raisin bran off my list of breakfast cereals.

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    12. I think their souls are seared and well they do in essence become soul-less. I am facing one thing where I remember loving my sister when young and the person she was, and realizing that person [that soul?] no longer exists and it is as if I have a deceased sister. The narcs and psychopaths run this planet now--the elites and bankers, I doubt they are planning a nice "humane" prison for us, more of a "prison-planet" with emotionless robot drones doing their every bidding and not being a challenge to narcissistic supply or power. Notice that in culture, the arts and everything is kind of dying or struggling to survive, while the "plastic" takes over. The zombie meme isn't fiction, many people are losing "their souls" and thus you see the "walking dead" roaming around going through the actions, empty hearts, empty heads and empty souls. I often had that feeling about my family narcs, there wasn't anything left in there to appeal to. I believe malignant narcs via my Christian beliefs are biblical reprobates rendered unto hell. Seared. There is a certain time where they choose to become what they are.

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    13. The narcs are able to pervert love and use and abuse an innocent child's trust and vulnerability, so I'm sure they could find a way to exploit 'classical culture.' Especially in a prison with good food and Egyptian cotton bedding.

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  10. After I learned about narcissism and finally figured out that my parents are classic N's, I remember thinking about Nfather as this person who had a soul the size of a raisin, a person who kept trying to project the image of being a full-fledged adult, but who had no idea how to go about it. I think the image of a parasite is better - having gone through a recent bout with intestinal parasites, I know the damage they can do! They're tiny, they go unnoticed for a period of time, but they can kill you if you let them be - and the cure can seem worse than the disease for a bit. But when you're rid of them, life is sooooo much better - and you learn to stay away from them! Thanks for the post - although I have to admit the raisin analogy was less disturbing...

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    1. The raisin analogy is less disturbing, but you've nailed how these narcs burrow into us slowly overtime and can eventually kill us if we allow them to live in us unchecked.

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  11. Argh! the nonACONs who repeatedly say that the narcissists can be fixed!!! That belief is what we have to shake more than anything! They're broken as humans. Broken broken broken, with the sharpest of edges and the deepest of self-pity and the hole that gets filled by their victims' destruction. Why do these trolls talk on your page, Lisette? They're narcissists themselves, seeing a reflection here or something. So hideous.

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    1. I couldn't agree more!

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    2. I'm very sorry. I was insensitive. It's true, I don't seem to have a lot of pity for you ACON's, but that's only because I'm too busy admiring your spiritual strength! By that, I mean your honesty, integrity and your love of truth. I have no pity for the twisted MN psyche (artificial intelligence) that manipulates to get pity for itself. But I do feel sad for the trapped soul, who can't be seen or heard through that toxic waste dump. I can't help that, though I can try to keep quiet about it from now on. I can't remember right now, but I think I feel numbness and shock to read some of your stories of abuse. I think the numbness goes beyond sadness, i.e. it is more grave. I think it might be a reaction akin to going to war. If I actually felt your trauma, I imagine I would collapse in grief, and wouldn't be able to face the reality of evil existing. Instead, I feel the numbness, but I retain all the facts of what these MN's are capable of. I understand I don't belong here, but I do respect and admire you ACON's so much.

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    3. Heidi, I get it. I feel super sad for my mN mother a lot of the time. But I've learned that her act of putting her shitty childhood on my shoulders was one of her narcissistic ways. Then it was her shitty marriage. Just so sad for her all the time.... but then I think it was Tundra Woman here (and Lisette) who both asked: did she ever feel pity for you, for what you've ever been through? Answer: no. Because I don't really count.
      P.S. I also wanted to add, in response to these latest commentators, that I have laughed my ass off while reading this site. I think the first time was when Lisette said the words, "hells no!" to her question "did I stay from other narcissists after my FOO?" (something like). I think I sprayed coffee from my nose. The righteous laughter is so healing!!!

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    4. Google astroturfing. I have the belief that some powers that be, don't want narcissism too understood, maybe some paid shills go on ACON blogs to divert the conversation. But maybe I am being too conspiracy minded and there are really that many NARCS out there.

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    5. D.E.M. But of COURSE narcs can be fixed! Now...where did I put that sledge hammer?

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    6. I just want to clarify that the sadness I feel for the little soul is actually not very big, it's the same thing as a kind mother or kind school teacher feels for a naughty little kid, when they'll say to the kid with exaggerated but genuine feeling something like "it makes me so very sad when you're so mean to others". I read in another blog the other day a story of how the blogger snapped out of her cruel behaviour at about age 5 when her kind mother (and wife of an N or MN) said something like that to her, and she completely turned around as her conscience took the reins. I don't know whether that could have worked on any of the MN's at a certain critical age, or if they were destined to be MN's. I feel sure that no MN would give their kids such a soulful prompt. They would either join in with the cruelty, egg it on, or make it all about them. And so the evil is perpetuated.

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  12. YES! YES! YES! Yes and kudos to the fiery vampire fighter!!! To paraphrase someone famous: This game of the narcissist is too deadly serious to take him/her too seriously, if, in doing so, it leaves us off-guard and vulnerable. I happened onto your site by way of the Robot post. It was so right on. But the BEST THING ABOUT YOUR SITE IS THAT IT MADE ME LAUGH. I'm at my most vulnerable when I lose my edgy humor. Your site strikes me as exactly and perfectly (exquisitely) CORRECT (in every political, spiritual, ethical, and intellectual way) because your antidote and medicine for the poison of narc abuse is to tell it like it is - narcissism IS CREEPY--- and your site matches that by echoing that quality -- the site is kind of goth and kind of creepy, and razor sharp, and tells it straight. I'm all for being sweet and sincere, but, in truth, that' not all of me. Puppies, babies, and horses can make me feel a bit sweet - but my life hasn't been in that mold.There's a residual edge left by familial and relational narc abuse. It's made me stronger. Smarter. Edgy. And an information junkie. (Knowledge is friggin power.) Narcissism is textbook. What at first seems so unique, eventually becomes banal. The more I read, the more I understand the narcissist has a continually running hidden agenda. For example,your site FINALLY cleared up my confusion about why the narc would get enraged when I wouldn't "communicate." (I'm naturally reserved.) I'm reading, and it's like BINGO! Your Robot post hit me like a ton of bricks! A huge, OMG Wow moment! Truth be told, at times I DO feel sorry for the narcissist, but to do so I have to be a million mental light years away from ANY narcissist -- which is my protection. Your site makes fun of a creepy, scary, demonic thing...and what better way then with edgy humor, and grit? Narcissists are seemingly impenetrable. I pepper-sprayed the narc on three different occasions and he still came back! Reading your site gets me fired up to use the greatest tool of all - ignore the narc, even when he's in your head. When I was a kid there was this saying my brothers would chant when punching me. It went, "Beat me, bore me, but never ignore me." I have NO IDEA where they got this from...probably from my narc father. Now, itt makes me laugh. The first time I went on your site I laughed out loud...and I was alone and it was 1 a.m.! I thought to myself, "Wow, a really smart really tough vampire slayer!" I spent three years trying to find a sane, serious medical explanation for narcissism. Now, I could care less. Every day of NC is a good day. Your site is absolutely the coolest ever. Chas

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  13. Wow! Thanks, Chas. I appreciate your enthusiasm. I'm also glad you get the humor. So many ACONs have an edgy dark sense of humour and an irreverent attitudet toward the evil narcs. Sometimes going macabre and having a good laugh is just what the doctor ordered. Welcome to my blog.

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  14. Sweet! I mean that in a good way! My revenge is all about getting my mojo back. Oh yeah, I'm enthusiastic as hell. Life is for the living, and living is about a lot of laughs. That's how to stay strong and get out of the trenches once and for all! I haven't met many narc abuse survivors with a wicked sense of humor, so thanks for putting out the welcome mat. I'll be checking in for more scintillations by the vampire slayer!

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  15. Good article. Yes mine gaslighted and denied everything, she would deny even something she said 10 minutes earlier. I believe NC saved my life. Mine was literally making me sick. I couldn't sit there taking that devaluement anymore.

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  17. Peep, about your comment that paid shills go on ACON blogs to divert the conversation... I don't think that is too far fetched, this is the internet after all and anything goes. What I get a lot of on my blog are therapist types poking around. I am anti-psychiatry, anti-therapy, anti-pharma. I think it's all bullshit and a form of social control.

    The reason I posted articles about how the police keep databases on 'mental health' and release that information to employers and government is to illustrate how psychiatry and law enforcement are now married. People are being turned away at the border because they are a so-called "bi-polar" and present a risk?! WTF?! First off, I don't even believe in bi-polar, or all the other garbage contained in the DSM. We live in a "police state" and a "therapeutic state." That is to say, we've been told what behavior is "normal" by the so-called mental health industry (that makes money diagnosing and labelling people) and we are expected to "behave" within those confines 24/7, and if you don't, then your behavior is linked to criminality. Talk about oppression. And all those drugs they want to pump into people to dumb them down and numb them out is despicable.

    My blog is about/for abuse survivors - the bulk of "therapeutic" consumers - and my message is: therapy and the mental health industry is BULLSHIT, STAY AWAY! The last thing any ACON needs is to be told by someone in a manufactured "power" position that the problem is with them. Narc abuse all over again, right? When we escape from the N cult and break the "no talk" rule the narcs label us mentally ill. We have, according to the narcs, mental problems because we don't fall in line and suck it up and take the abuse. There was a psychiatrist, way back when, who came up with a 'disorder' for slaves who wanted to escape. Yup, that's right, the desire for FREEDOM was considered a mental illness. I don't think it's too far fetched to draw parallels between the N family cult and the police/therapeutic state.

    I absolutely despise all those facebook pages, websites and blogs that promote a therapeutic state and post "studies" and "statistics" and "models" and articles written by mental health ghouls (with no N experience) who are simply flogging books and therapy sessions. They come across as a bunch of brainwashed consumers just lapping this shit up without questioning it. I should add that most of the people guilty of this mode of thinking are not ACONs but the fools who chose relationships with narcs or those who see narc abuse victims as a target market. It's narcs out to feed.

    So, there are those who are part of the mental health machine (and random trolls) who really like to take a swipe at me and my blog. They usually follow a predictable pattern as far as their comments go. All I can say is, I'm happy that I'm pissing off these shameful fools. Their hostility toward me is satisfying.

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    1. Lisette I will admit I have gone to counselors mostly Christian ones, but I think there is some serious problems in the psychiatry world, and I have refused all psychotropics my entire life. My belief is while there are a few chemical cases they can help for the majority of people it's to numb them out. It has helped to kill emotions in general for the psychopaths and narcs to take over. If everyone is told they must be happy and it's their fault they are not, hey see how that works for them? That way the slaves won't protest and think they are being directed in their "best interests."

      I do agree with you that government and these worlds are getting married. The totalitarian state being built, will definitely utilize mental health information. Guess that boat already left the harbor for me, but I would warn anyone young about how they can use the information. You are right that what is "normal" is being made more and more narrow. Creatives even feel the oppression, the conformity demanded today in American society is far more then it's ever been before. It seems to get a job that pays you anything real now, you have to have Kool-Aid Drinker politics and a perfect thin body and personality that "fits in". One thing I am absolutely sick of is the "think positive" movement, as they dismantle everyone's economic life, and stick it to them, the head narcs want the serfs to keep smiles on their faces.

      There are definite ties between the N family cult and the police state. We escaped the cults and the crucible of control. I used to tell friends, no Stasi could break me because if the two psychopaths failed at it, after years of practice and a lifetime of physical pain, there really was not much difference. I know that some of the things I have written about, I probably am on a list somewhere. [9-11, global elites etc, questioning the obesity conspiracy matrix].

      Yes the psychiatrists work for the "system" and label you defective just like the narcs. One time at a support group I said and I like these folks, this is an independent one, peer supported, and said, "Don't you realize it's the system that is sicker then us?" I had therapists you know who DID tell me I was the problem, and while my parents were abusive, I needed to reconcile with them. My NM told my entire family I was the "crazy" one for not submitting to her abuse and for having my own mind. So did my NF and a bunch of the narcs. Of course all I have to do is look at who has done well in this world and how the sharks never are wanting financially or worried about the collapse of their economic household to know how this world really works.

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    2. I took their advice. None understood why someone may run from their family, no one told me about narcissism or psychopathy. I had to read and find out about this stuff online in my early 40s, which was a bit late in the day to learn how to deal with the mind screw being done on me. I'm not shocked at one coming up with a slave disorder. That's all about control. Even the "think positive" movement crap enables the elite to play the blame game on all the poor, they have outsourced all the jobs on and use the criminal system to oppress--research how the corporations employ prisoners for pennies on the dollar and how so many of these snakes are profiting off the prison pipeline.

      Yes I have seen the narcissist marketplace online, a few small groups are ok, but most of the large ones, they tell you to love and "forgive" your narcissist. I see the ones who see us as a money making opportunity. Some will come on, and tell you, you must think positive or that the pain and abuse the narc gave to us was a gift. On a health board the other day where I talked about painful medical and economic realities, someone posted a sign about how people all make "their choices" and that if they complain too much no one will want them around. I am sick of that stuff too. I had enough of being told I was at fault for everything that went wrong in my life from the Narcs. That serves the system too, be a bunch of smiling, "think positive" serfs. I actually think ACONs have more ability to see through the oppressive fog of the police state and mind control since they already lived it on the micro-cosm. I tend to make the mental health machine mad too. One thing I know the obesity world is hooked into all this nonsense too, as I have written we are being crushed being the fat haters and the fat deniers as the powers that be fill the world with their toxins. Some political correct types have so many speech rules it makes my head swim. They do not realize they are just being used too. So yes that is a good sign they disagree with you. I know the "let it go", "numb yourself out" and "feel nothing" crowd just wants us to crawl back into the fog of denial, and take more abuse.

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    3. Peep, thank you for your thought provoking comments.

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  18. I know THREE superNarcs who just went into practicing different forms of therapy in the past year! Actually FOUR!!! One of them borders on malignant too. Never met worse listeners in my entire life than these three, as they preen and talk about themselves and don't even take a breath in that talking. I steer clear, but sometimes the interaction is inevitable (work related, etc). I go into Lisette-Recommended Robot Mode!

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  19. It's no surprise that more and more narcs are getting into the therapy game. Politics, medicine, pseudo medicine, law and law enforcement are considered positions of so-called superiority and control. The narcs want to run the show. Fuck em!

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  20. My God this is so disgusting. I feel like torturing my MN mother with harassing phone calls, and take her down till the old bitch dies. Slowly.

    I grew up believing I had the best loving mom. I have been bullied all my life. And had 2 abusive relationships (mother loves to tease me about that). My daughter emptied my bank account because she was in charge of paying the bills at the tender age of 15. I was in such rough shape. I couldn't leave the house, I was a wreck. Been in therapy for years. But the therapist couldn't get a handle on what was wrong with me. Just treated my symptoms of severe anxiety. It wasn't until I came to the end of myself and just felt all my emotions (I couldn't help it, it was overwhelming) that I woke up.

    Now, I'm waiting to be part of a discussion board about DONM, but I may have to wait 2 weeks to get accepted.

    But a miracle seemed to happen overnight from my awakening. I can handle all the stuff I couldn't before. The bad thoughts are still there, but its ok, not taking over anymore.

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  21. Wow, the comments on meds, and therapy are great! Last summer, I realized my antidepressants do NOT work, I had suicidal thoughts Constantly going through my brain. I gradually reduced the dosages with the help of my medical dr, and got off the meds, after being on them for years. I just saw a psychiatrist about my NM before her latest visit, and it was a complete failure! He treated me with condescension, and made me feel like my problems weren't significant. No interest in helping me dig this crap out of my life. Instead of bringing me down, I feel empowered for the first time in my life to figure it out myself, with the help of fellow ACONs, and this wonderful, funny, validating blog.
    Everytime I'm on this site, I read the block at the top of the page about "who needs some ultimate fucking justice!" It cheers me up everytime :)

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  22. My mother came into my apartment one time. She was yelling "Are your bills paid?" Truth was I was having serious financial problems at the time, and the electricity could be cut off at anytime. I couldn't hide this from her because her last visit was snooping in my mail. And she told anyone who would listen. Now, I have an education, I could actually make a lot of money. Hard as I try, I couldn't hold down a job my mental state was bad.

    Everyone I have talked to about this thinks she was being caring and worrying about me. But if my daughter had problems like I did, I would have a hard time figuring out how to bring it up. And if I had the resources to help her, I would. Meantime I would be present with her in the situation, and wouldn't tell the world. I wouldn't be feeding.

    I know that now, but I was so brainwashed I believed my mother was caring in her own way. People stare at me and think I'm pathetic because of MN non-mom. Only a narcissist could disguise cruelty for slander.

    Oh, she does this thing where she'll sit down and talk to me and tell me that I shouldn't worry about what other people think.

    The switching of tactics was to keep me around for the next feeding, in case I caught on to her, that it really wasn't caring.

    Now, she is elderly and requires more help, she will get none from me. I am done. If she has to go live in a ditch then so be it. You know, a dog doesn't get as many resources, and a dog is loving. Everyone can get angry over it if they want to. They think I'm pathetic anyway.

    I know how tricky a narcissist is. I've decided to keep an eye on my new hubby. Maybe I'm imagining things but at times he seems to like to "feed". And he has been looking for my attention since my awakening, I've been busy. Maybe I'm paranoid but I'm not going to test him or play games, just watch.

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    1. One glaring "Red Flag" of malignant narcissism is their complete disregard for another person's privacy. You better believe they are "feeding" when they go around telling the world about the target's so-called problems. That's why being vulnerable around a narcissist or disclosing any sensitive information to them is so dangerous - they will use it to slander you, frame you, destroy your financial stability and come between you and the people and things you love. Narcissists are nothing but dirty rotten scum. The only information they are interested in, is the information they can use to harm you in some way. In fact, it doesn't matter what they know, because they will twist and turn and distort reality in order to support the script they've written for you.

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    2. Yes, I have seen it. Also, and I think this is good to point out, if there was rust growing on the car or something needed to be fixed the non-mom would bring that up, and broadcast that only because she knows it hurts. I am a proud person always have been. And I had no money. She knows that and she uses it.

      This can be disguised as caring when needed. This is the gaslighting, this is the feeding.

      No normal person does these types of things. No normal person does these types of things. I can't say that enough.

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  23. Knowing all this stuff and recovery seem to be very far apart for me. I have been learning a lot even as much as discovering that one of my former friends is narcissistic. My daughter told me this years ago and I didn't see it. Even as a child my daughter picked up on her. As I was remembering her telling me this, I decided to call my daughter last night. So I asked her what she recalled telling me all those years ago.

    Here is what she said. "We were at the pool and she told her own daughter that she was not allowed any cake, in front of at least 10 people" Her daughter was a plus sized girl. "And it wasn't that just she said it, it was this look of satisfaction on her face, complete satisfaction, I always hated her mom, always have, she was always doing stuff like that, even having to have her way all the time".

    My daughter wasn't reading any of this stuff I've been reading. She has internal resources to spot a freak. I didn't, and I was always looking for my friends approval, which I never got. Sometimes I get so scared I'll never reach being normal. My automatic response is to try to please. I do understand now what my daughter said all those years ago, only through meditation and reading. So I will keep doing those things. I want internal resources.

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    1. Kids seem to have a sixth sense about these freaks. Maybe it's because their life experience with "people" has not yet been muddied with a multitude of freaks, and abusive weirdos have not become the norm. For example, being in a work environment where narcissistic backstabbers thrive, living in a building managed by personality disordered individuals that feed on spreading gossip, lies and innuendo about their neighbours... and the sheep follow and lap it up, ONLY because it's not them being persecuted. Most adults become dumbed-down, ignorant and sheep-like with each passing year - they learn to keep a low profile and go along to get along. Children are instinctual. And if their family doesn't mirror the deranged crap back that they see in real life, they spot it. By the same token, those raised in a narc filled environment can spot the same abuse a mile away.

      I had friends growing up that just hated my mother and sister, and always knew there was something wrong with my family. They never witnessed any overt abuse, but they sure caught the covert stuff. And it would only be covert in their presence because MN mother was cautious. I remember being in high school and a gang of friends came to pick me up. I came to greet them and my MN mother appeared. All it took was to see "the look" on MN mother's face for one friend, who was really a new acquaintance, to hate her. This one kid spread far and wide that she, "felt sorry for Lisette, because she had a mean mom." This got back to me and I was pissed-off, to say the least. I didn't want anyone feeling sorry for me. But all it took was for her to see the MN "look." She got it right. The bitch was a mean mom.

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  24. Thanks Lisette, its good for me to know that now that I've woken up that I have hope now that I'll see the narcs before they come and eat me alive. I've been sort of hiding, hold up in the house, and even self-medicating last night, not trusting anyone even my husband.

    Yesterday was an extremely hard day for me. My car was finished at the mechanic and I had to take it home, and I was beating myself up over that. So I started to try a more compassionate approach with myself. It was new for me and very confusing to say the least. Then I had 3 margaritas then passed out on the couch. Doesn't seem like self-medicating works for me very well.

    But, like my daughter, I suddenly realize I can spot the freaks. The paranoia is going to help me recognize whenever I see it again. I will see the "look" of narcissism. I didn't know it would work that way. It is a primal instinct really. Its always been there for us, I'm so sure I have never taught my daughter that, but it was there on its own working. We who have been raised by narcs did what we needed to do at the time, because we needed to survive. So that primal instinct had to take second place, but now we need to put it in first place. I hope I'm making sense, hard to organize my thoughts sometimes.

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