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Narcissists are mental and emotional terrorists, and like terrorists, they strike when you least expect it.
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They are predictably unpredictable.
ReplyDeleteCurrently, after having gone NC with NMIL, we're waiting for her next attack. I don't know whether her silence for the last two months has been due to a lack of interest (she knows she can't get the same NS she used to from my husband and is looking for it where it's easier to get and she doesn't have to work for it) or because she is planning something big.
Either way, I'm fairly certain she's not done with her attacks. She won't officially be done until she knows there is not a smidge of NS left to be gotten out of DH.
I love reading your stuff - very informative!
Jonsi
"Narcissists will view other people’s disturbing and disgusting behaviour as funny."
ReplyDeleteThere is a picture of DH as a baby (between one and two years old) and he is obviously terrified. His NM laughed when she showed us the picture, telling us how funny it was that her brothers were blowing up balloons and letting them go to scare him.
I was horrified. Who would do that to a child? And what kind of bitch mother would laugh about it? It's insane! She should have taken him out of that situation! She should have protected him. She should not have been laughing about what was a very real and legitimate fear for a one year old baby.
Babies and children have feelings. They need to be protected and honored.
Jonsi, what happened to you DH is very familiar. Narcissist parent's idea of humour is to embarrass, torment, and mock their children. I remember growing-up my Dad yelling at us kids to, "GET DOWN HERE!" That only meant we were in trouble. We stood in front of him trembling and he pulled out airline tickets to Disneyland. WTF?! Even doing something nice had to be destroyed with abuse. He thought it was funny.
ReplyDeleteAs for your NMIL, it's always curious when a narcissist retreats... either they're re-thinking their strategy or plotting something. It will be interesting to read how it all plays out. Maybe we all should wage a few bets on what she might do - hee hee.
Glad you're enjoying my blog. I'm enjoying your blog too, you have a very unique perspective on all the narcissism stuff. You must be continually horrified.
Jonsi, you nailed it,"they are predictably unpredictable."
ReplyDeletenew reader here.......excellent blog. As a daughter of a NM and NF, I was "trained" to second guess myself. Since, I have not fully "unlearned" this lifelong trait, I pay close attention to anybody who gives me the slightest bit of anxiety. The narcissist loves to shock, that is true, but even more covert are their attempts to keep you off balance.
ReplyDeleteOne day while nearly having a nervous breakdown (The PTSD part of breaking lifelong denial) and crying before I ever took a seat in the therapists office, she wagged her finger at me and said coldly and matter of factly "what's all this about?" I was SHOCKED and quickly felt like a scolded school girl. Ironically, I listened to this therapist explain dysfunctional family dynamics and she was the one who helped me to understand my role as the "scapegoat." However, she also told me to stop calling it "abuse" and refer to my memories of abuse as "critical." It was a horrible experience but I find it disarming that these narcissists can be very "informed" about their own disorder without knowing they have it. They are just a cluster B cluster f*** aren't they?
Chesire, thank you for your comment. I was really hoping that someone would relate a "therapy" experience.
ReplyDeleteBeing a top graduate of narcissistic abuse training camp, I too was trained to second guess myself AND protect the tender feelings of the abuser. I regret all those years of not calling the narcissists out on their crap. But that was then.
The vile shrink I referred to was a Freudian and complete weirdo. The first time I met him I was repelled. If I had trusted my gut I wouldn't have lasted more than one session with the creep. I told him that my parents were pathologically self-absorbed and my mother was sadistic. I was on the right track but in the wrong hands. He was such a deeply entrenched narcissist that his whole MO was to disarm the patient and keep them off balance. After one session he wanted to see me 3 times a week for 5 years!! I lasted a month or so. Not only was he abusive - constantly getting me to doubt my own reality - he was completely out of his mind... The whole experience was destructive. I didn't walk away from that nightmare with one iota of useful information. It wasn't his goal to help me - he was looking for a mortgage payment and a mind to mess with.
I had a similar experience to you with another therapist. The first time I saw her, I told her I was experiencing some depression. She looked me up and down and sniped, "You're dressed depressed!" Since when is a white top and black pants depressed? And, this coming from someone dressed all in mustard!!! Mustard colored shoes, mustard panty hoes, mustard skirt and jack, and mustard colored hair. Even her skin tone was mustard!! Her fashion crimes alone should have sent me running.
She had one or two okay insights and recommended a couple of good books but other than that she was just plain abusive - mean, manipulative and the queen of projection. She told me that my mother was "evil" but also sniped, "if you don't watch it, you'll turn out just like her." I was nervous in sessions and shaking after them. She intimidated me, she was the clone of my malignant narcissist mother. Go figure.
The thing is, when it comes to N therapists, they are in that profession only to fulfill their narcissistic needs NOT help people. Hell, they're not capable of helping people. Indeed, "They are just a cluster B cluster f***"
It's not suprising then to walk out a narcissist therapist's office feeling the same way you did when you were being abused by N families. Experiencing that same anxiety caused by N families is key to knowing you're in the presence of someone dangerous.
It certainly is a lifelong process to "unlearn" their toxic brain washing. Now I'm dedicated to a different kind of training.
Lisette, thanks for making me laugh! Mustard...barf! I love the classic black and white. If only you could have had a nice come back for her at the time. When she said "you dress depressed." You could have paused and said PROJECT MUCH? I mean, mustard is the depressing color and she projected it onto YOU. ha!
ReplyDeleteI'm impressed with your "discernment." I am finding the same thing is happening to me. Sometimes our biggest weakness becomes our biggest strength.
Cheshire, too funny! If only I knew then, what I know now. I swear, I would have continued therapy just to mess with those FREAKS.
ReplyDeleteI love that sequence in the film "Goodwill Hunting" where the Matt Damon character goes through a series of pervy, weirdo shrinks and toys with each of them - priceless!
One quack I saw had the worst BO and I never went back. I thought, how can someone who isn't aware he stinks ever help me?
There are so many abusive weirdos and losers in that profession. Sure feels good to make fun of them!
lololol.....it does. We go from "how can they say/do that to me?" to "what a bleeping moron!" ;)
ReplyDeleteI will say that I had a therapy session (after many years) who asked me this: If your dog had two toys. One was "squeaky" and the other is not. What do you think he does? He plays with the squeaky toy and ignores the other. If we don't give them a "reaction" (narcissistic supply), they leave us alone. And, this is a good thing, no matter who they are in our lives!
Interesting, and SO true. I remember Dr. Full O' Crap would try and bait me by saying stuff like, "Oh, I was going to say something, but it wouldn't be fair." I didn't react at all. Instead, I just layed in silence while he expected me to respond with, "what? what were you going to say? Please tell me!" I know this pissed him off - I wasn't squeaky enough. I guess in my own way, I was pulling the "Goodwill Hunting" reaction on him.
ReplyDeleteYou made such a good point: that NO reaction is the best/safest reaction to twisted people.
Cheers!
You write so well and capture the essence of having face time with one of these creatures. It would be extremely narcissistic of me to claim my mother is queen of the N's so I won't. But she is right up at the top of the list. Her criminal activity includes participating in the murder of my fathers boss. That probably would push her into the full on sociopath category. She presents as NPD. Go's sociopath being closed doors.
ReplyDeleteThis is a well designed and thought out site. You are articulate and charming in your style. I am glad to visit here in the genesis phase of your evolution. I miss Anna V and her Narcissist Suck blog. Maybe you can fill the void she has left.
She posts rarely now and I miss her stuff. She has earned a hiatus.
q1605,
ReplyDeleteThank you for you kind and encouraging words. I do NOT think it would be extremely narcissistic of you to claim that your mother is Queen of the N's. I think you're entitled to it. In the story of YOUR life she is Queen N, and it sounds like you have one hell of a story. Good grief, she's literally an accesory to murder - in the legal sense. In the metaphoric sense: they're ALL accesories to murder - soul murder.
Frankly, I believe we're all entitled to claim the Ns who poisoned us: the worst of the worst. If I was savvy with presentation software I would create a graph of all the Ns in my life. My MN mother - Queen, MN Father - King, MN sister - The Chosen One would all hold a secure position right at the top... like at the peak of a mountain where they held rule as royalty/dictators - crowns firmly in place, and and sceptres gripped tightly. Me? The lowly foot servant who go the boot and fell tumbling down the side of the mountain without a safety net, and crashed into every variation of narcissists along the way... SUDDENLY... a safety net was thrown (information on NPD, other survivors) and I gained my footing and began to carefully tread my way down the mountain to even ground.
I too miss Anna V, and the discovery of her blog - as well as Kathy Krajco's - was like finding The Holy Grail. Anna certainly has earned her hiatus. I was always blown away by how she churned out so much good, solid writing with such intensity. That can surely lead to burn out as it is such a heavy subject, and requires the writer delving into darkness. But on the flip slide, it also leads to liberation, and a sense of justice because the TRUTH is finally out there. I think there is a limit to writing about this stuff because eventually you become free from enemy occupation, BUT never forget it.
I bet Anna V is one of the most liberated people out there, and her legacy of freedom lives on. She is a great example of the positive power of healthy, righteous anger. She is also IMO a hardcore REALIST.
Thanks again for your comment. "She presents as NPD. Go's sociopath being closed doors." That's gold! Nicely put.
I am a little disarmed at your follow up. I have posted on so many sites and never know if anything I write ever gets read. It kind of blows me away. When I tell about my mothers criminal activity I get the feeling no one believes me so I am loath to include it. Thing about my N is that to me and my sister, her affect was garden variety neglect. Same as any other ACON. She was way too busy gaming others to waste her time bashing us. We WERE denied a mother figure. And she had my father so enmeshed with her we were as good as orphans. Until her criminal activity landed her in jail, we were just wall paper behind her self aggrandizing life style.
ReplyDeleteThank you right back for the wonderful feeling of being heard.
q1605,
ReplyDeleteI dig your writing style. It verges on beat poetry, and speaks the truth of your experience so succinctly.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, surprises me about these creatures. The N's garden variety neglect of the children, and not even thinking they're worth the time and effort to bash... meanwhile, they're out in the world putting all their energy into being slick cons to maintain their self-aggrandizing life style. They are sleazebags. I can relate to what you wrote about. I hope you continue to share your experiences.
Beat poetry? HAHAHAHA
ReplyDeleteYou are the bomb!
I am the proverbial alley cat and you just fed me a saucer of milk.
q1605,
ReplyDeleteI just slapped my knees in laughter! Yep, I'm luring you in... We're all just alley cats on the net. Let's start a gang - we'll call ourselves THE BOMB!
I was serious about the beat poetry thing... if you ever get the urge, please write stuff and I would love to read and post it. I love creative ways of expressing shitty experiences, then it's no longer a shitty experience - It's art!
If my life is art, it's a Jackson Pollack interpretation of dog's playing poker.
ReplyDeleteGood to meet you Lisette. My real name is Doug.
I would love to share some of my life with you and your readers.
But you will have to promise that you will believe me.
I saw a comment of yours on a thread about truth being stranger than fiction. That bitch on wheels that calls herself my mother really pushes the boundaries on that.
Hello Doug/ AKA q1605,
ReplyDeleteGreat to meet you! A Jackson Pollack interpretation of dog's playing poker??!! That is something I would love to hear/see/read about. What a freakin analogy.
I promise you that I will believe you. The comment you read on a thread about truth being stranger than fiction, that was me. So I won't doubt what you express about that bitch on wheels who calls herself a mother.
I can't wait to see what transpires when Pollack meets sneaky bulldog hiding cards. If that's not an interpretation of chaos, I don't know what is.
I think I also saw a comment of yours (I am sorry if I am mistaken) about using humor to camouflage the nasty business of surviving life with an N. I have that in spades. The truth is that the women rained untold grief and some very unfunny situations down on all of that she inflicted herself upon. I will lurk a bit for fear of hi-jacking anything and comment the odd comment lest I become a nuisance.
ReplyDeleteBut I really like this place and all ready feel safe here.
You are a very charming person. Funny how being raised by wolves turns us into lambs.
q1605,
ReplyDeleteNot sure if the comment was mine, but I can totally relate to the humour thing. It's really not a bad thing to be funny, and to process the madness by satire. Life really is absurd, and very unfunny a times. Having a good sense of humour is a gift. But, taken to the extreme, I think it sometimes confuses folks who are genuine and want to get close. At least, that's my experience. Do whatever you feel comfortable with here on this blog. I enjoy the comments, and interaction with readers just as much as the writing. I'm glad you feel safe here. It's very true that being rasied by wolves turns us into lambs. That's why I don't buy the abuse excuse when it comes to narcissists. Some of the kindest people - I have never met, here online - are those that have suffered deeply. I really enjoyed our conversation.
I just don't want to wear out my welcome here on the very day I discover this place. I have spent my life hiding out and telling no one of the things that went on around me. I am no longer happy being the one who watches his step. She is the freak, not me. But some of what went on was not only bad for me but can be triggering for others. There have really been two lives for me. There was the life I lived as a child. The one in which I had a front row seat to the freak show around me. And my adult life that I have spent distancing myself from my childhood.
ReplyDeleteThere are people now that think they know me well that if told about what went on in my life as a child.....well I know what they do. I get this moment of them staring me up and down and them realizing that what I am telling them is not a joke.
I would think that adults could separate the dumbassery from then (my sisters description of it all) from the person that is me now.
You want to know what? They don't. I can be ha ha funny and punch it up as much as I can and they still get this strange look about them. Like they are seeing me for the first time. And sometimes this distance does not dissipate with time. So I am careful with my words. Not for me as much as for them.
It is very frustrating to know that the average person can not endure a five minute conversation about things I have endured for a life time.
Yeah, every time I hear about our N sociopath's maybe having a rough upbringing and how they should get a break it makes me want to barf. If anything they should know better than to perpetuate the sickness. I would never treat people the way my mother treated me and the rest of my family.
ReplyDeleteThing is my grandmother (her mom) was a saint. And from what I can comb out of old stories is that she was pampered from the time she hit the ground. My grandmother is who really raised me. My mother used my sister as a nanny at the house and then dumped me at my grandmothers.
Which is probably the only way I came out of that time alive.
Here is a story that my mother likes to tell. When I was two-ish and my sister was 9 one of the neighbors told my mother that her kids were bound to end up in prison or worse. It was her back handed way to comment on all the untoward activity my mother had going on at the house while my father was at work. But to this day my mother thinks it was that the neighbor could tell we were bad seeds even at that age. She has never connected the dots in her head that the neighbor was taking a swipe at her and the revolving door of %$$*^mmmmmm men that paraded in and out during the day.
q1605,
ReplyDeleteIt IS frustrating to know that the average person cannot endure a five minute conversation about this stuff... It can be very isolating. ACON was born because survivors of narcissists need support, and its really only the people who have lived it who get it. We've had our hearts ripped out by people who were supposed to nuture us so we need to be protective of ourselves. Not everyone needs to know our story or even pieces of it, not everyone is safe. We need to seek out people we can trust, and trust takes time to build. Deep, personal relationships don't happen over night, and they are scary for some of us. Most people don't want us to upset the apple cart - they're not the people we should disclose information to.
The narcissists I've known were pampered little babies too, and they remain that way. I guess they became stunted at some point and expect the entire world to treat them the same way they were treated as a child. It's no surprise you mother never put the pieces together of that neighbour's comment. She's delusional, and in her mind her children were always worthless, and she's perfect, so she clung to that comment because in her twisted mind it enforced what she believed. Narcissists don't live in reality.
when the narc tries to spring a shock try to show no emotion on your face . if you watch their eyes you will see them scan every inch of your face as they are excellent face readers. you can short circuit this by using different expressions, an amused smile, a big yawn , pick your nose whatever. also body language helps, for example if you think an attack is imminent try standing with your feet at shoulders width , lift your chin up , if your using hands and arms at work try making wider arcs with them. this is what animals do when a predator is near and the narc will be so thick in the head that he/she wont know what your up to when they decide to slither away. also try to lower your voice and end sentences on a downward inflection this too implies strength and the scumbag will be to dim to know what your up too . if the lowlife is sulking don't fall for what most people will do and approach them as that is just what they want you to do, try seeing them as an octopus holding you in its tentacles and forcing you to look at their face. if they sulk do the opposite of what they are used to doing , walk away or face away , this acts as a shock tactic to the narcs mind and he/she may well try the reverse method for narcissistic supply/attention and be nicer. if they ask things or say things dont answer for several seconds and when you do then walk away to the toilet coffee machine wherever just walk away, this shows you are in control of you and not them in control of you.these creeps are not intelligent and wont know what your up to.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteAll good tips. I've used the big yawn, and I've also said something like, "Oh shoot... I just remembered... " and I walk out of the room. This shows that whatever they were trying to say/do didn't even register with me because my mind was on something else. Yeah, the big babies sulk a lot and expect us to approach them with "what's wrong?" I'm not buying what they're selling it. They behave like children... malicious, nasty, spiteful children. And, they have the intelligence of a child to boot.
/facepalm works very well too. Oh-- and derisive laughter. Its really fun when you can actually reduce them to genuine tears of pain and self-loathing. Its as beautiful as a baby's laughter, IMO...
ReplyDelete>:}
Kimani,
ReplyDeleteHilarious! I heard a good tip about dealing with telemarketers... while they're talking, just shout out different vegetables: Broccoli! Cabbage! Rutabaga! Then the telememarketers will hang-up on you.
Uhg....My first job in highschool was as a telesurveyor. I wasn't lucky enough to have people pick up with such a good sense of humor and we weren't allowed to hangup ourselves! >_<
ReplyDeleteI read something from your blog every single day so I don't become complacent and fall into the guilt trap, which I often do because I actually have too much empathy (the only one in my narcissist family who does). Each day I get stronger and stronger and develop more and more resolve to ditch these harmful people from my life. Thank you again. Your blog has literally SAVED my life! I know it will take years to recover a lifetime of shame, but I am now at least moving up, instead of down. I swear God sent me to your site.
ReplyDeleteSomething I got from your blog this week that has helped me tremendously. Can people who are supposed to LOVE you really and truly be this evil? YES THEY CAN AND ARE. I was in denial before because it's beyond my comprehension to imagine a loved one being this cruel, but now I know it's true. Talk about an ah-ha moment. I wish you would publish a coffee table book. It would be placed in my home for everyone to have access to. God love you.
ReplyDeleteHi, I really just wanted to thank you and commend you for not sinking to the level of the malignant narcissist. I had never heard of this disorder until a few days ago and I realized I have been my fathers thrall for the past 6 years. He has threatened my famly members as well as myself our entire lives,be it verbaly or physically. I cannot count on one hand the times he has pulled guns on me, my mother and siblings. To make matters worse he has killed counless men during his time in the armed services. When he is enraged, his instinct is to kill.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what I will have to do to get out of this situation, I spoke to an officer but if he can't help me I am scared I will have to fight him to the death to leave. TO ANYONE WITH A FATHER WHO SEEMS EXTREMLY OVERPROTECTIVE AND OVERBEARING DO NOT LET THEM FEED YOU LIES, BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE AND HALF OF WHAT YOU HEAR.
am on the way out of my 2nd narc male relationship with NC...he told me " I put up a good fight ..when we argued . he also told me absolutely nobody ever wins when its war its war and he fights to the death
ReplyDeleteforget the squeaky toy , these people are terrorists more cunning than bin laden and just as ruthless . they believe you are lower than a squeaky toy lying in the dirt , and at times I have felt like a dirty left over squeaky toy that had been mauled so badly I had no squeak left . every action with my XNPD created a reaction of the polar opposite ..I am not a violent person but I was pushed to smashing things when the Narc would continually deride me into submission using any tactic he could ...sinister warfare like attacking my moral , my children , my late husband actually him being jealous of a deceased person was a real eye opener for me ..narcs are beyond redemption , their sole purpose in a relationship is to find out what actually hurts you the most ..and deliberately use your most vulnerable parts against you ..they weave a trail of caring and generous , to absolute torture and contempt , you never know what is next the nasty or the nice ? when you bite back they are nice and when you are vulnerable they are nasty ...my narc actually told me ..I was lucky to have him cause no body else would want me ...' another statement " I am trying to be nice to you its you who is being nasty ' when someone has to say they actually have to concentrate on trying to be nice ...then you know youve got problems ..if you actually do Listen carefully to what they say ..they tell you what they are ..just listen
I had a therapy session with my Narc. ex-husband and the woman therapist looked me dead in the eye and said loudly, "Tell him you're sorry!" I asked, "for what?" I had just related to her his abusive rages that went on for hours over NOTHING and all his other abusive behaviors. I was crying out for someone to help me and the marriage. She again said, much louder and more demanding, "Tell him you're sorry!" Again I said, "for what?" She yelled it this time, "TELL HIM YOU'RE SORRY!!" Again, I said "What am I saying I am sorry for?" She stared at me like she was mentally ill (which she probably was). She continued to stare at me with a hateful look on her face, not answering my question. I turned to me ex narc. and said "I'm sorry." I turned back to the therapist and said, "Now, does he have to say he is sorry to me for how he has abused me?" The therapist just stared at me hatefully. I asked this question several more times and the therapist continued to stare at me hatefully and contemptuously. She never had my ex narc. say he was sorry to me!!!! I have never seen anything like it in my life. I could barely finish the session. I never went back. To this day, I want to report her to the Board. She never made my ex narc. accountable for the abuse he had heaped on me. She believed his lies and judged ME to be unfair to him!
ReplyDeleteMy second encounter with a mentally ill therapist came a year later, near the end of the relationship. This therapist (a weak man) allowed my ex narc. to abuse me during the session, making accusations and calling me names. The therapist just sat there and allowed the narc. to control the session, demeaning and humiliating me to tears. I kept looking at the therapist for help. He looked back and me and said, "I can't take your side." WHAT???? What kind of therapist does that? He allowed my ex narc. to continue assaulting my character and spirit until I was in a total crying breakdown. This therapist actually hunched over and acted like he was afraid of my ex narc. He probably was! Again, I went to the session for help and was nearly destroyed instead. I was suicidal by the time I got home. Thank God, my friends pulled me through. What a living hell these people (narcs. and mentally ill therapists) put us through! I am rebuilding my life and moving forward. I will never look at therapy the same again. And, I will never allow anyone, be it another narc. or mentally ill therapist, to throw me off balance again! Survivors of narcs. unite! Live well!
Wow, what a- holes... Definitly narcs themselves. How you can tell is that they condoned the abuse and they were not appauled by it.Narcs defend narcs...
DeleteYea - and the guilty narc doesn't even have to present at the therapy session for their behavior to be condoned by their fellow narcs (the therapists).
DeleteThe two sicko Ts I saw defended the narcs, made outrageous excuses for them, dismissed the gravity of their crimes, "guessed" about what their sad little childhoods may have been like, and on and on. I also got shouted at by these two wackos.
To this day, I contend, the shrink and the psychologist were both MNs because of their extreme hostility toward ME for simply bringing the sick and twisted narc behavior out into the open, as well as standing firm in my belief that what MN parents did was wrong. I mean childhood abandonment is just wrong. How can anyone argue with that? But these two freaks not only condoned their actions, they defended my poor narc parents in the process.
Abusers identify with other abusers, and when that happens they pull the blame the victim card and turn you into the problem. Projection and scapegoating all over again. Not to mention being traumatized all over again. This process of re-victimization makes for a nice raw client to exploit.
I wanted to report the two dangerous and destructive MN Ts that I saw, but the whole system protects their own. It's quite scary what they can get away with, without even losing their license to practice.
"the whole system protects their own" Yep and to take it a step furthur, it can be any system. Like church, the school system, etc. The narcs are always protected by some kind of a system.
DeleteMost of the high-functioning psycho narcs end up at the highest rungs of the system - THEY control the social system at large. Corporations as an example, operate exactly as psychopaths do. See the documentary "The Corporation."
DeleteInstead of going off on a rant, I will offer this quote:
"It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" --- Jiddu Krishnamurti
New reader here. My husband is seeing a counselor for the first time today because of his narcissistic behavior. I have to say he came by it honest as his mother is even worse than he is. After 15 years of marriage I'm at the point of being ready to leave. Between him and his mother I've suffered anxiety attacks for most of our marriage and I learned to "keep the peace" with both of them by becoming submissive, being a martyr, walking on eggshells to please them, and everything else that is required to spare myself the hours upon hours of being told I'm crazy, being told things didn't happen when I knew they did and had proof of it, being told I was the problem, ect. I know I would have left a long time ago, my own family kept talking me out of it and telling me I was being a drama queen. "I don't see that" my mother would continually tell me. Of course she didn't, an abuser always hides what they are doing! It's been within the last 6 months that the anxiety attacks got so bad I sought counseling and with that I've been fighting back again. It's been like a war zone and of course all of the world's problems are my fault! I've also recently graduated college and that seems to be causing some issues for him. He was all for me going back, he had all of the money I would be making spent in his head before I was even done with school. He wanted a new car, wanted a boat, vacations, and thought it was about time I contributed. I had been a stay at home mom, at his insistence even though I never though we could afford it. It wasn't even because it was in the best interest of our children, it was because he wanted someone else to deal with daily life so all he ever had to do was go to work and bring home a paycheck. Now my new independence and happiness at no longer being home all day seems to be causing him some problems. He's lost a big part of his control over me. I found a job at a bank and was required to set up an account there for my paycheck. He is on the account with me but has no access to it so he doesn't have a clue how much I'm making and I'm not allowing him to spend it on all of his toys. I'm not making enough to pay for half of what he wants anyhow but I see it as my way out if his counseling doesn't work and I'm holding on to it for dear life.
ReplyDeleteI don't have high hopes for his counseling. He's had 15 years and it's only gotten worse but I just can't bring myself to leave without finding out. He says he knows he is a very selfish person, how could he not know when time after time he's done something completely insensitive that's left me in tears and instead of being supportive or even apologizing he's made the entire situation about him and his needs then criticized me for being overly insensitive. I'm so angry with him for many, many things. I think the worst he's done was on my 32nd birthday, 12 years into our marriage, he once again gave me a gift I very specifically told him I DID NOT WANT. I opened it, burst into tears at his thoughtlessness and all hell broke loose. I was ungrateful, materialistic, crazy and needed mental help, and he couldn't believe I was acting so childish. Then he proceeded to tell me he had never been in love with me because he was still in love with the woman he dated in college and it was a gift she would have loved. That was over 3 years ago and it still hurts like hell. He keeps telling me he was confused and didn't really mean it but he tells so many lies it's hard to distinguish when he's telling the truth or not.
Now my counselor is telling me she thinks I'm depressed and need to be on medication for it. Great! He already tells me I'm crazy every time he doesn't get his way and every time he does something wrong, now in his eyes he has "proof" that I really am crazy. Even knowing I probably do need it, I'm reluctant to take it because I know he will hold it over my head.
Anonymous,
DeleteI am sorry for the hell you have endured being married to a narcissists and having a N mother in law.
The only suggestion I can offer you - if you want to go the counsellor route - is get yourself a new one - pronto! Try and find yourself a therapist/counsellor who knows what the hell NPD is. Do some homework. Interview many. Of course you're depressed! Who wouldn't be in your situation, but meds aren't going to solve the problem. The problem is you are married to a narc. You also need to find yourself a good divorce attorney that also knows about NPD. Not easy to find, but there must be some out there.
Counselling for your narc husband is not going to do YOU any good. Therapy doesn't work on Ns. It's an untreatable disorder. It may even make him worse if he can con and manipulate the T. Unsavoury Ts will likely try and find a way to look at him as a suffering soul with a mean mommy who lost his true self... then they can go to town on that crap and try to "help" him get rid of his false self and find his real self. AND, they can make lots o cash in the process. Blah, blah, blah. If that happens, he will come home from therapy sessions playing the victim. I shudder to think.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the matter. Obviously I don't know what is going to happen. But I would suggest you help yourself by divorcing his ass, and finding someone who understands the destruction that narcissists wreak on their spouses, and people in general.
It's good that you are gaining independence with a new job and your own bank account. Continue to carefully plot to get yourself away from the narc.
Your N husband will never change and your life of hell will never change if you stay with him.
Thank you for your response! I pretty much told my counselor the same thing, medication is not going to make my problems go away and I think going on it I will run the risk of becoming more submissive again. I don't want that life!
DeleteThere is a big part of me that wonders how much of this is him and how much of it is his mother continuing to manipulate him. I feel that it's a combination of both, I just don't know where the lines lay and it's very confusing for me. I'm a threat to her and her control over him and she's wanted me gone since the day she found out we were getting married. She knows exactly how to push his buttons and get him to do what she wants and I do see a significant increase in his narcissistic behavior after contact with her. I have heard her put bugs in his ear about "putting me in my place" about things he had no problem with before speaking to her and been on the receiving end when he does it but then he feels horribly guilty for it afterwards and hates himself for allowing her to talk him into doing something so hurtful. Again, it's very confusing for me! Something that does give me a small amount of hope is that as hard as she tries, she's never been able to convince him to leave me and any talk of it from me sends him into a panic. That's also confusing for me because of the way he treats me. Another little thing that gives me some hope is how disgusted he is when he catches his mother being manipulative, he just doesn't see it so that doesn't happen often. I guess another one is that he doesn't behave in a narcissistic manner with our children. He's always been a wonderful father and very complimentary of me in the way I treat them and sings my praises for the amount of respect I give them. He's told me often that I am so different than his mother and she could never be half the person I am in that department.
What doesn't give me hope is that he sees this all as completely normal behavior. He's told me several times that it would do me some good in life to learn to be more manipulative. I think not! I also don't have much hope that he's going to be able to take it when he starts self reflecting in counseling and sees something he doesn't like. It's very hard for him to admit any kind of fault in himself, being viewed by anyone but especially me as anything less than perfect is something that he doesn't know how to cope with.
I recently laid down the law with his mother and she's keeping her distance for now. I feel like if there's ever been a time where I could find out what part of this is him and what part is her, it's now but it has to happen before she regroups and comes up with a new game plan. I may be overestimating myself but I feel like if I know where those lines are, I can better make a decision about the future. There has been a big part of me that has stayed to protect my children from his mother. If we divorce I will have no control over how much time she can see them and I will no longer be there to protect them when she's around. I would also no longer have any kind of say in the negative ways she is trying to influence my husband as a parent. That is the only area that he has always, no matter what, defended me to the bone and stood up to her on. It scares the hell out of me to think how that might change if we divorce! I know how much damage she's done to her own children, they all have the same issues my husband does and their spouses feel the same way I do, and I cannot allow her to do that to my children. I also can't allow myself to continue living like this either so something has to change somewhere.
Hi, I have been through a similar experience, so I am going to offer some help. Really you can take it our leave it, but I am just offering my 2 cents.
DeleteI would suggest setting up another account solely in your name, even though your husband can't access your account now. He knows about its existence, which will definately go on the divorce papers. Do not drain it immediately, but move your money across whenever you can.
Secondly, I can empathise with you wanting to know where he starts and his mother ends. Your curiosity will never be satisfied, all you can do is get ready to move to a life with less of both of them.
Be prepared that as you move towards or through divorce that it will become a very ugly situation, so its pointless investing time in wondering how his counselling will turn out.
Narcs do not change permanently.
Thirdly, shield your children from any negativity.
I was lucky what when I went through this I found a counsellor who just let me talk and cry for one session, and when i told her I wanted to leave my husband, she asked me what had prevented me from doing it before?
Errr I am became addicted to the pendulum swing of emotional abuse.
I came back one more time to have like a marriage funeral through counselling, and she suggested that I just get on with my life now. And there is nothing wrong with me.
Godsend is not the word!
Make sure your children are busy, have lots of friends and activities. Get them involved in as large a life as possible.
Rant in your journal x 10 and dont keep ranting to your friends about your MIL and husband- you will need them to reflect back to you the happy person wanting to come out of your shell.
Love yourself positively, be mindful of the way you treat yourself. Don't accept lesser behaviour from anyone else.