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When I was a kid and at the height of my mothers criminal activity she would carry on imaginary conversations with imaginary men in the mirror while she put her make up on. She also did this in the rearview mirror while we were stuck in traffic. It was unnerving to hear one half of a conversation and listening to a woman talking to dead air like some guy was there flirting with her. She would smile and say things like,"oh no you don't mean it. You say the funniest things" over and over until I wanted to jump out on the freeway. It almost makes me feel sorry for but compassion for her was something that was dangerous to show her.
ReplyDeleteSuch an excellent post! You have so accurately described narcissistic sister and the made up slander that has prevailed. The business of what is made up in her head that now becomes HER reality, when it is based on her jealousy and competitiveness. I am grateful for this writing of yours. It is dead on. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI observed my N Dad having half a conversation with a refrigerator. I have to say, it freaked me out. I was standing in the doorway of the kitchen, only 3 feet away from him, and he had no idea I was there. He was so deeply absorbed in his little world. And like you Q, I found it unnerving because he was definitely responding to someone that existed only in his head. He would say something and then laugh at what the imaginary person said and reply to the dead air. I never saw him do it again, so I figured either his doctor put him on some meds that curtailed his psychosis, or he was on meds that made him behave this way. Honestly, I believe his internal fantasy world just crossed into external reality.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I had been no contact with my MN sister for about 14 years when I spotted her a few times. One time I was at a video store and she walked in and stood right next to me. I know for certain, she didn't even see me there. I believe these narcissist live primarily in their heads and they are not at all present in real life. Anyway, the fact that she didn't even see me freaked me out so I hid in the Mystery/Thrillers section and didn't emerge until she was gone.
Not too long after that, I was sitting in my car in a parking lot when I spotted saw MN sister in her car having a one sided conversation. It was truly bizarre. She was talking out loud and when she talked she kept on looking over at the passenger seat, but as far as I could tell, there was no one in the passenger seat. She kept on repeating this bizarre ritual. She would stare straight ahead talking away, then she would flip the visor and look at herself in the mirror and touch her face, then she would look down at her lap and start talking, then she would turn and talk to the non-existent person in the passenger seat. This happened over and over and over in a OCD kind of way. She had absolutely no awareness of her surroundings or that she was being watched. Eventually she got out of her car and went to the post office, so I took the opportunity to look in her car to see if there was someone sitting in the passenger seat, because she repeatedly looked over at the passenger seat and talked to someone or something. I thought maybe there was a little kid sitting there, or maybe she was talking to a pet. She had to be talking to something, I thought. When I looked in her car, I did see something on the passenger seat - it was a cauliflower head. No joke. I mean, considering my sister's sociopathy, a severed human head would have made more sense. But no, it was a cauliflower head. I don't think the cauliflower head was her travelling companion, my guess is that she recently purchased it at the supermarket she was parked in front of. My sister's face was also really puffy and I thought she might be a schizophrenic on anti-psychotics. I even called my dad to ask him is she was mentally ill or schizophrenic. He said, "No, not that I know of." He also said, "Well, if anyone has the right to be mentally ill, it would be her." Like everything, my poor hard done by sister was the one that had experienced the most suffering (in his opinion) and would be "allowed" to be mentally ill - poor baby. He could also have been referring to her being fused with MN mother. To be honest, I don't think anyone could survive being an extension of that women without going bat shit.
I think my dad may have told her what I said when MN sister called him and did her regular probing of information on me, and that may have made her even more determined to paint me as mentally ill. It's also possible that MN sister is a schizophrenic and is being treated for it. That might explain why she went out of her way to paint me as a schizophrenic. She can;t tolerate the fact that she has "lost control" of her mental faculties. She also likes to diagnose everyone with mental illness and I find that highly suspect. Plain and simple projection as far as I'm concerned.
Maybe your father was talking to his demons. It sounds like he has gone batty as well. Hey I am just wondering. I never caught my mother in any weirdness, she had this way of always appearing "in control" but who knows what is happening behind closed doors anymore. So your sister isn't living with your Dad and Leroy anymore? That is creepy about your sister talking to a cauliflower head. You know since she was a mind slave to your narc mother, she probably has no friends at all, so she has taken to talking to cauliflower heads. I agree there has to be some major projection there with the mental illness. Mine always focused on calling me crazy. There's no such thing as recovery in the narcissist universe. I have to remind myself, that mine showed a lot of insanity on a daily basis, even the screaming and wailing over one thing being out of place was a mental problem. The extreme OCD and house-cleaning where they had to look like a museum. One thing behind my sister's crack up could be the endless cleaning for years, drying out sinks after every use, and pleasing the demanding narc husband with the thumb on her "allowance". I admitted to myself even though I am poorer then dirt and barely keep a roof over my head, there is a hell of a lot more freedom in my life. She went from being a slave to Mommy, to being his slave too at Mommy's arranged marriage behest. I don't live in the same town as my narcs but I know I would feel really weird running into them. It would give me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, I am glad you hid from her. I am glad to see you back too Lisette. I hope you are doing well and have been thinking of you.
DeleteIt was about ten years ago that I saw my dad and sister talking to themselves. So, whatever is going on in their minds is likely a lot worse now. And like you said, who knows what goes on behind closed doors. Yeah, my sister hangs-out with cauliflower heads. Maybe broccoli and cabbage heads are her friends too. Makes sense that vegetables would be her companions considering her mental state. Extreme OCD is another form of control. What do you think would happen if the narcissists homes weren't in perfect order every day? My guess is they would have complete melt downs and or rage fests. I know my MN sister's mask slips and she goes completely berserk when she thinks she's not getting it all. Life is a zero-sum game to her, in order for her to win someone else has to lose, so if someone gets something/anything that means she loses and that, to the crazy bitch, is agony and she strikes out violently to even the score. She needs a hobby.
DeleteYes I would fathom they get sicker with age. My sister got crazier and crazier looking as the years went by. She started to frighten me. I wrote about this before where I showed a mutual high school pal a recent picture of my sister and she couldn't believe it was her. She had changed that much. She said my sister had a scary and dark look to her eyes.
DeleteMaybe your sister will draw eyes on cabbages and start talking to them at home. The narcs would melt down if their homes were not in perfect order. They are cleaning every minute like Lady MacBeth washing blood off her hands.
My sister was insane with the cleaning when I visited in 2003, she actually had upped it a notch or two from my mother. All the counters had to shine. Her narc husband expected things to be this clean too. I saw mine have rage fests if their homes weren't perfect, one wayward glass in the sink was enough for my mother to start swinging. My sister yelled at one of her kids for not drying the bathroom sink out after use, because it would leave "water spots". None of the narcs I dealt with have any hobbies. I know my sister never did unless you can call cleaning one.
I think your mother and sister definitely are sociopaths. Your sister definitely enjoys the suffering of others.
A common tool used to slowly reveal that a character is a sociopath is to first show their pathological need to control their environment - to every little thing being lined-up perfectly, color coded, to no "water spots" to NO WIRE HANGERS!! My MN sister is a slob, but her pathological need for control manifests in other ways. For example, she's MUST be the puppet master of everyone's thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and actions. If she has zero control over someone, especially her adversary, she will stop at nothing to exert her control. She - like all of these psychos - is blind to the consequences of her cruelty. My blog is a "consequence" of her inhumane behavior. Your blog is a consequence of Queen Spider's behavior. I bet your mothers would have a conniption if you wrote under your real name. and as a result, exposed her. I'm always a few key strokes away from naming names. The halo if off and the pitchfork is out.
DeleteI like your reference to Lady MacBeth. "Out out damn spot!"
I think I might send MN sister a cabbage patch doll so she has someone to talk to. Maybe I can find one on E-bay.
DeleteThat's interesting about the need to control the environment, that is EXTREME with my mother and sister. No "water spots", no "wire-hangers indeed.
DeleteI do not understand how my sister's children have not rebelled. Why does it seem all the children and teen in my family are "perfect" narcs in training and drones? Even the one who writes me I worry about her. She doesn't seem to question anything. By that age, I was already fighting. I could be adopted but it seems against circumstances. Maybe the narcs have done an excellent job hiding any of the rebellions. I am not sure. Do you have any ideas about that? They are all thin, neat and perfect. Are they too scared to? Will they be all narcs. It is something I am wondering about. It seems out of 4 would be cracking up and rebelling against the pressure for intense cleanliness, order and high achievement. One even became an Eagle Scout.
Yes, I am sure some could be slobs but busy with controlling elsewhere like your sister. Yes our blogs are consequences of their behavior. In my case because my health problems are so rare, combined with Aspergers and because 500lb something people who used to be even near 700lbs are rare, they will know it is me writing against them if they happen to see it even with it being free of real names.
Of course I doubt dead-inside narcs leave the family reservation online and probably lack the intellectual curiosity to google anything new of interest.. Yes mine would have a conniption when and if the blog is found. If I ever publish anything, it could get interesting for me.
I'm always a few keystrokes from slapping up pictures and naming names too. There's one cousin with a blog now defunct. Sometimes get tempted to post segments from his blog but fear I would be found, he actually has an article up about how he was an expert at oral sex [he uses the slang for it] and one article about how he shouldn't sweat never visiting his dying grandmother [his dad's mom on the other side of the family] in the nursing home even though she lived in the same town and this was one of the lesser narcs, and "nicer" ones. Years ago, I found a very painful video on Youtube that freaked out one of my friends where he was singing a Prince song at some type of conference. His desperation for attention leaked out like all the sweat on his head.
I think Lady McBeth had more of a conscience, after all she went insane from her murderous deeds but do think the obsession is everything and there is need for control in the physical world that they desire of the mental world and all their sychophants.
Yes I'd send your sister a Cabbage Patch. My sister is so far gone, I don't think she would even care if she found herself living alone in a room. She is so closed down, there's no need or desire for companionship even a fake kind.
"They are all thin, neat and perfect"
DeleteI guarantee one or more of those kids is bulimic, anorexic or suffers from some other type of self-harm, anxiety or phobia. Perfectionism is a sign of a very troubled environment. Just you wait, something's gonna give. I've observed a "perfect family" implode. The father, who was a high level narcissist and a obnoxious braggart got what he deserved. His so-called perfect children and family that he shoved in everyone's face, was just a smoke screen for what was a highly dysfunctional family controlled by a creepy narcissistic asshole. If your sister's children don't rebel when they are young, they will likely have some serious troubles in adulthood. Of course, the narc parents will never take responsibility for their part in it. If they are real sickos - like my parents - they might even enjoy seeing their children suffer.
If you called your mother a malignant narcissist she might google the term and find your blog. Your cousin sounds like a real winner. Only a narcissist would post a humiliating video of himself on youtube and think he looks cool. I know a narc who posted his interpretive dance wedding ceremony on youtube. I guess he thinks it art. I think it's desperate public masturbation.
"I think Lady McBeth had more of a conscience, after all she went insane from her murderous deeds."
I think narcissists go insane from hiding from their true selves. They know right from wrong, but this doesn't speak of a conscience, it just means they know how the game of life works. When their mental gymnastics, lies, manipulations and deceit are no longer effective or backfires on them, they are forced to face their true selves. They don't want to confront the demon at the door. "They can't handle the truth." So, in order to maintain the lie, they push themselves further and further from reality. Living a lie, in and of itself, is a form of insanity. Playing make believe your entire life is insanity.
The most dangerous people on earth and the quintessence of evil. I am the scapegoat for a family of malignant narcissists and psychopaths. These three score full marks on the Hare PCL.
ReplyDeleteMy father: Malignant Narcissist and psychopath. He has a body count too. Mostly young men. See, he's homosexual but being a narcissist he can't have that get out. Think Randy Kraft. He chose simple-minded women for 'relationships' and has eleven children total yet other people are worthless objects and props to feed his sickness. Idolizes Jim Jones and considers John Wayne Gacy a 'sloppy amateur'. Calls himself a 'womanizer' and he's telling the 'truth' in the way that psychopaths do. "Womanizing' was what he did to his male victims. Little 'truths' wrapped up in massive lies. Confessed every sick crime he has ever committed when he tried to murder me back in 1987. Also confessed that I was to become him. Think 'Animal Farm'.
My mother: Malignant Narcissist. Threw a dinner knife in my face when I was eight. Fed me to my father in vain hope that he'd come back. Too many sick incidents to mention here.
Younger brother: NPD and DID. He got our father's wire in the blood. Got his cowardly and sneaky nature as well. Put it this way. He wanted to be a cop. They turned him down because he failed the psych tests. He also claims my accomplishments for his own. Climbed to adulthood on the knives he stuck in my back.
I survived though. I suffer from C-PTSD, Stockholm Syndrome and NVS. The idea was for me to either die or become my father. Thing is though that with all the heinous abuse I suffered I never became that creature and instead learned self-awareness, deep introspection and sometimes debilitating empathy. All that makes me Enemy Number 1. I hold all the filthy family secrets and that makes me terribly dangerous.
I didn't remember anything about anything until two years ago. The Pandora's Box in my head that contained all that I know and have seen and been forced to participate in exploded and all hell broke loose. The revelations almost killed me. I've looked far and wide for others who have suffered the same things I have and can't find anybody with a comparable story. According to my various head doctors it's because they're dead. Either by their own hand or ultimately that of the psychopath. I survived. Not bragging, just stating.
I could have gone vengeful on these sick fuckers. Still some nights I sit on the edge of the bed and think to myself that I could leave, go and ice each and every one and still be back before my wife wakes up with the alarm clock. I don't. Know why? Because I won't. Anyway, no prolonged physical torture I could devise could ever equal the things that have been happening to me since age two. I instead have spoken to the law and now agencies both here in Canada and also the big boys down stateside are looking very closely at my father in particular. Cold cases though and with all this terrorist shit happening the cold cases are back-burnered. Knowing that I know everything has really messed up their grand illusion and they have no idea when the hammer will drop. Whether it's me come to collect or the law to finally put a stop to them...they'll never know a minutes peace.
Beware the psychopath and remember this fact. Not all narcissists are psychopaths but all psychopaths are narcissists. Your life may depend on knowing this. And don't think that you can see through them. Too many people think that they can see through lies and that makes them that much easier to fool.
Wow. Your post reads like a page out of a true crime thriller. You've had one hell of a life, and if you penned a book, I would buy it. I'm sorry for the cards you were dealt, the deck was really stacked against you and most people wouldn't have survived it - like the head doctors suggested - but you prevailed. I agree that not all narcissists are psychopaths, but all psychopaths are narcissists. I also agree that it's wise not to believe you can see right through them. They are capable of shit normal people could never conjure up. I try and imagine what's the worst they can do, but knowing they have no rock bottom means that they will stoop lower than what I would consider their lowest low so i will never see it coming. I don't have a criminal mind and they have no rock bottom and that means they are always a few steps ahead of me. I hope you're safe and out of their reach. Also, hope you and the law brings the fuckers down. In the meantime, it's good to know they're squirming. If you haven't already, you should check out Q1605's blog "Back Stage Pass To The Sociopath Side Show." His mother had a body count.
DeleteI've seen and experienced the worst they can do. My father started on me when I was two years old. He pushed me off of the dock at my uncle's new cottage in 1966. I actually remembered it, along with everything else, a few years ago. My uncle told me about it many years ago but I didn't believe it then. Everybody saw him push me in and screamed at him to pull me out but he waited until I gave up struggling to do so. My fucking hero, right? It was all about trauma bonding. Then in 1967 he did something else involving my babysitter's (who he was banging and who's son is actually my half-brother) basement. He knew he had me then. Later, from age three and a half until age seven, he took me along to his brother's in southwestern Ontario where the three had a joint enterprise thing going on involving his two brothers and women his one brother picked up. These women did not leave the house alive. I witnessed things no child should ever witness. It all culminated in an attempt on my life in 1987. Since then, because I never could remember anything about anything, he and my brother have been building the lie that I'm crazy and all this other heinous shit. I've actually stuck up for and assisted these two fucks all these years never knowing what was going on. Now that I've come out of the fog I see it's all textbook. I've identified the triggers my father put in my brain to keep me forgetful and also to train-wreck my life over and over. I've walked away from job after job and relationship after relationship all my life all because of it. I'm back now. And I'm pissed. Even now, I don't hate. I grieve for what should have been and what was stolen from me and all those who have been close to me. I'm just past fifty now and trying to pick up the pieces.
DeleteAs for writing a book, I already have a title. 'Out Of The Basement'. The basement is where I spent every day from age three to age seven at that babysitter's with nothing to play with but a mechanic's creeper. The basement is also where my father said all the memories went and that basement was in the deep recesses of my mind. He used the triggers one too many times, actually gave them to my brother and my mother, and one night I had a harrowing nightmare where that basement played centre stage. I have since, in my head and awake, gone back down that basement and taken that little three year old boy and the twenty-three year old dead man by the hand and crashed us all out. I cry with that little boy now. Until I came out of the fog I had never cried in my life but twice.
My entire life is a cautionary tale that I want to share however who would want to publish a book like that? I wouldn't even know how to start putting it together. Any ideas? By the way, your website has helped me more than I can say. Believe it or not, it's good to know that there are others who have lived with monsters. Monsters do exist but they're not under the bed or in the closet. They have human faces but that's where the humanity ends.
It sure is amazing how the mind works to protect us from traumatic memories. Who could live a life consciously aware of all you've been through without going crazy or catatonic or acting out. I experienced my own onslaught of traumatic memories and it damn near drove me out of my mind. I hid out in a city (no one knew where I was) and I numbed myself with benzos and booze and only left the house to go for walks and to get food. I couldn't live with my thoughts. Eventually I got stronger, cleaned myself up and started writing. That's how this blog was born.
DeleteI had to write, I had no choice, I had to save myself.
I get that you're angry, but you don't hate. Same for me. I won't let the evil fuckers taint my entire life and the good things in it.
I had a real visceral reaction to your post. You need to write that book. "Out Of The Basement" is a haunting title, much like your locked-up memories. We need to get stories about Adult Children of Narcissists and Sociopaths out there so the public can get informed and we get the respect we deserve, instead of the labels they (society) likes to slap on us. You don't need a publisher, just write your book and publish it yourself on Amazon and all those other book sites. If you get it out there, I will promote it on my blog. I get a fair bit of traffic here, so it wouldn't hurt. In fact, I extend that invitation to all Adult Children of Narcissists who has a book in them. Write it, please write it, and I and I hope other bloggers will do what we can to read them, review them and promote them. It's our time to be heard. It's our time to heal.
I am curious does their control falter as they age? I am so used to seeing mine in absolute control, even the idea of her ever becoming weak is foreign to me. I know the ravages of time even will bring a person to fragility but I am so used to this one holding all the cards and power that it is hard to picture it. Remember I had the narcissistic grandmother I wrote about yesterday who acted like she was waiting for a bus while she was dying of cancer. If terminal cancer doesn't break a person what will? I know my mother and even grandmother were morally insane but a weakened form of insanity where my mother may be babbling to herself on a park bench, at times I had a hard time picturing it. Do the sociopaths go crazy with age too?
ReplyDeletehttp://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.com/2015/03/queen-spider-of-darkness.html
However that said, I had this huge premonition [I don't seek this stuff out] but I had this incredible feeling that my mother is supposed to go SENILE and dementia to the max, and I was escaping a horrible future within the family. This thought was odd to me, remember I am so used to her being in absolute control. My mother is an NM who has never "failed". She has always come out on top.
Some of this could have been intuition bound as even as I was walking out the door, Mini-Me GC who has no empathy was complaining about my mother's failing hearing and how she didn't hear things. I am severely hearing impaired and what she told me didn't make any sense, it sounded more like my mother was FORGETTING THINGS. If mine has any weakness of mind where she can't keep up with her lies and her crafted appearances--she can still write phony cards, then the whole house of cards could come tumbling down I suppose.
I can see my the GC Mini-Me losing it one day. She already looks like she is on the verge of cracking up. She isn't as high functioning as my mother was or is, with the charisma to play people on marionette strings. She has no friends. She has been controlled by my narc mother and her narc husband her entire life. Her wasting away body and smile that looks like a grimace in every photo are scary to see. I think she may decompensate when my mother is no longer around or if her unloving husband decides to divorce her once the children leave home or to get a trophy wife. I realized when talking to her the very last time on a PM, her words did not make sense, they were all jumbled like I was talking to a schizophrenic. She told me, "I do not travel" in the same 5 minutes she said she was going to Florida. The syntax was majorly off. It has worsened with the years too. Even her personal identity seems missing, you know when people age they are supposed to become at least more sure in who they are. She seems to lack one.
I think they're all insane, whether or not they end up on a park bench babbling away depends on their circumstances. I'm sure if you could hear your mother's internal dialogue you would be convinced of her insanity. She's in absolute control that's why her mask is in place. But what if she no longer had control over others?
DeleteI don't think their control necessarily falters with age. Their control hinges on those who orbit around them. Like many malignant narcissists, your mother may hold all the cards till her dying breath. That doesn't mean she's sane. Just means her wire wasn't tripped. She's a malignant narcissist. She a deviant with a deranged mind. Most of these freaks live very ordinary lives. They don't have to "act" crazy to be crazy. In fact, that's what in my opinion makes them crazy - acting normal outwardly when inside they are the devil. Jeffrey Dahmer went to work every day like a regular guy, and came home and ate people.
I agree they are all insane too. Yes imagining the internal dialogue that has to be scary. I wouldn't want to know what is in there. I imagine her life as a maze with all the plotting and planning galore. Yes she is in control and her mask is up. I believe mine is one of the most "successful" narcs/sociopaths out there. She rarely slips up and you are right she may never slip up unless she grows fail or goes senile but she is still insane. I agree the very fact they can put on such pleasant exteriors, is pure evil.
DeleteI can't tell you they get worse as they age but their condition doesn't improve. By the time my mother died if she spoke of the sun coming up the next day I would beat it to wal mart and stock up on flashlights and candles.
ReplyDeleteBecause everything she said was the opposite of reality?
DeleteAbsolutely!
DeleteLisette, I just want to say thank you for this blog. My mother is a covert N and sometimes it's hard for me to put her bizarre, erratic behavior into words, but you really seem to "get it." I'm wishing you the best and a life free from narcissists!
ReplyDeleteThanks Susan. I wish you the same. Though I don't think it's possible to have a life entirely free of narcissists. They are like bad drivers on a busy highway - everywhere and unavoidable. The goal is always is always to protect yourself from them (let them know you are not easy prey) and refuse them access to your personal life.
DeleteThey are so bat-shit crazy. I see that now in hindsight as I no longer am in contact with any of the narcs. Seriously, why did I put up with that crap for so long.
ReplyDeleteThis was an informative posting, I'll have to come here and read it again. This is the truth.
"Why did I put up with this crap for so long"
DeleteWelcome to the club :)
Lisette,
ReplyDeleteThanks for this blog! I tried to write in for the first time last night and this morning,said only allowed 4,093 charactures! What should I do? Shave it down or send several in a row? Or is that just to much? Thanks again and looking forward to posting.
Shave it down or send it in installments, your choice. How many characters are we talking about? You might want to limit it to 2 max character posts, to start.
DeleteI look forward to your post.
Lisette,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for these posts and insight into the reality and mindscape of the narcissist. I came upon these about a month ago after the behaviour of my NSIL (?) left me flabbergasted and I went looking for insight. This because my brother fell for the setup and appears we will lose one another over it after only finding each other recently after 23 years of no contact. We had a great reunion and I never imagined anything or anyone could interfere with that. Boy was I surprised! Anyway, I would definitely like to talk about that, but will save it for another post. It reads like a soap opera and I was so severely gaslighted by the whole thing by my brother that I literally came up with an entire picture/sketch in my mind and planned to hire an artist to draw it so as to "explain it" better. What am I speaking here, Chinese?!!! Anyway, I'll get to the point. Because of this search and your blog I finally understand that I am an ACON. I am the daughter of a MNM. After all these years ( a lifetime) I finally have a name for the crazy- thank you!
I'm glad you found my blog and could put a name to your experiences. I'm sad that your relationship with your brother has been affected by the narcissists. But that's what they do - divide and conquer. I've been estranged from my brother for more than 2 decades. Over a year ago, I reached out to him, but he is brainwashed by my malignant narcissist sister and mother and will not communicate with me. Funny that he would believe lies about me, especially when they come from two crazy hags that I haven't seen in 25 years. Just how accurate could their "information" be? Also, he hasn't seen me in 23 years yet he chooses to believe the lies. He's a coward and a dimwit like my dad who is bullied by MN sister and does not question anything she says or does. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who blindly follows a narcissist is an abuser too. Your brother has free will and a free mind, if he wants to maintain the status quo with a narcissist then he does not deserve a relationship with you, but he does deserves to get burned by the narcissists. They all do.
DeleteAnyway, my MNM was always a scarry figure in my life for as long as I can remember. Just seeing her car drive up the street use to set my gut on edge. I spent way too much time as a little girl talking to my best girlfriend on the swing set about my trials and tribulations of living living and dealing with her. I recently told her, after our latest stint of 10 years NC that mothers were suppose to help their children AROUND the bumps in the road, not BE the bumps in the road. Nevertheless, I decided to embrace the challenge of dealing with her (after she surprised me showing up on the other of end of my phone) foolishly thinking that now, as a fully-grown adult I might be in a better position to deal and perhaps point out any wrong thinking as it might arise; for instance, not too long ago, she was complaining that my brother takes too much crap off his wife, and I said, you're not going to like this, but if he took an insurmountable amount of crap off his mother he's not going to have a very good yardstick to measure how much he should take off his wife. Anyway, I saw your blog on the Wicked Queen from Snow White and had to write in. I sent her SNOW last year! I strongly related to it (all of it) and was curious what she might say. Every time we got on the phone after that she would talk a blue streak and not let me get s word in edgewise. Finally I called her out on it and insisted, after a month or so of her stalling, I said, "Watch it, and I'll call next Saturday and we'll talk." Suddenly she had to go out of town, was so sorry she'd miss it etc. etc. why didn't she just give me her cell number then? No, nothing doing, suddenly we were stuck in the dark ages! She continued giving me the slip until I tired of her game and went NC again for another year...
ReplyDeleteI've never heard of a ACON getting through to a narcissist parent and reconciling. That would take the N parents admitting what they have done and that will never happen. Ever. As far as I"m concerned, any attempt at reconciliation should be made by the abuser not the abused. Your mother does not want to face reality and will continue to evade it. Your ability to articulate the truth will always be outmatched by her skill to lie. You could send her video evidence of her abuse and she would deny it. You tired of her game and went NC again for another year? No contact you shall stay, unless of course you like banging your head against the wall.
DeleteHi Lisette. I’m a long-time reader of your blog, first time commenter. Your posts are like deep tissue massages, really getting in there and relieving the bad shit. I hope this isn’t too familiar or awkward of me to say, but I’m SUPER sorry these people were your close relatives. You’re an inspiration to write about your experience(s) with such a powerful voice.
ReplyDeleteMy “father" is a malignant narc and I’ve been NC for two years as of next month (yay!). I walked in on him pretending to have a huge fight with me once when he was the only one home. I had recently gotten my navel pierced and was doing sea salt soaks to promote healing. I chose a crappy plastic cup no one would miss to do so. I came home one day to him screaming “DID I SAY YOU COULD USE THAT, YOU LITTLE BITCH?! NO, I DON’T THINK I DID!” all by himself, not realizing I had walked in. When he saw me standing there, mouth agape, he actually seemed annoyed that I had interrupted him. Guess it was inconvenient for the real me to appear right in the middle of him winning an argument with the pretend me.
Hahaha! That's bizarre, but not surprising. I bet after we go NC these MNs have all kinds of pretend abuse sessions with chairs, refrigerators, TVs, whatever objects they can substitute for the real object of their abuse.
DeleteThank you for your condolences. Right back atcha!
Hi Lisette, from what I have seen this blog gives the most accurate representation of what MN’s/ psychopaths are like behind closed doors.
ReplyDeleteMy story is that my Mother and Father are both psychopaths, with my Mum being the most dominant and psychopathic of the two. So much so, that she sometimes terrorizes my Dad when she is not getting her way with the “children". My Sister is a carbon copy of my mum and the GC, and my brother I can’t work out - either way both side with my parents and label me as mentally ill.
I am the eldest of the siblings, and only figured this out about 2 years ago (I’m late 20’s), it’s like suddenly understanding that my whole life has been one big lie, like someone has pulled the rug from underneath me. Since then I have managed to extricate myself carefully from this cult under fear of death, I live alone now and the more time that goes by the less afraid I am that my father is suddenly going to show up in the middle of the night and kill me - it wouldn’t surprise me if they hired a hit man though, and I have to assume they have hired a PI to track down where I live.
I have severed the last of my ties with the flying monkeys so I hope now that I can finally move forward with my life. However, fighting the cognitive dissonance and accepting reality is a daily battle, sometimes I feel that my parents were right and that I am maybe going insane.
I have isolated myself and avoid human beings as much as I can to help deal with the effects of the trauma, but it can’t last and I am going to have to return to work soon.
My worst experience has been with therapists. Went to see 3 therapists after going No Contact and its the worst thing I could have done. Everyone shouts about the benefits of therapy, no one says anything about the dangers. I would not recommend therapy to anyone. 2 of my therapists ended up being Narcs, and got their self-esteem from feeling superior to their clients, and one was so incompetent she didn’t even know what she was talking about, and ended up making feel suicidal. She was apparently a trauma specialist.
Your blog is very validating, good to see you’re still writing.
They can't all be wrong, can they? Every scapegoat struggles with this. It's called gaslighting and it's part of the ring of destruction circling the scapegoat that's used to keep you living in fear, obligation, guilt and shame. In other words, to keep you in line and under their control. Well let me tell you, they are all drinking the same Kool-Aid and the fact that they call *you* crazy is a testament to your sanity.
DeleteConsider this quote from Joseph M. Carver, Ph.D., Psychologist.(I edited).
"Narcissists make us crazy. They operates in such damaging ways that we find ourselves doing and thinking "crazy" things in self-defense. While we think we are "going crazy" - it's important to remember that there is no such thing as "normal behavior" in a combat situation. Rest assured that your behavior will return to normal if you detach from the narcissists before permanent psychological damage is done."
There is no such thing as "normal" behavior in a combat situation or when you are trying to process the trauma. Give yourself time. You don't need to reconcile all your thoughts and feelings at once. It can take years to wade through all this crap. That's the essence of narcissistic abuse: messing with our minds. We don't blame war vets for having PTSD, so we shouldn't blame the victims of narcissist. To be honest, you may never fully recover from the grief. It's a huge loss to realize much of your life/relationships have been a lie. I know I will never "heal" or "recover" or any of that shit. Beware the mass consumerism that feeds off vulnerability and suffering. Don't let someone tell you how you should be feeling or what stage of the so-called recovery process you should be at. Do you think a parent who loses a child ever "recovers" or "heals" from that? No. They learn to live with the loss. Time will make what was or wasn't more tolerable, but the fact that your family are evil pieces of shit is something no one can ever recover from, nor should they be expected to. But I guarantee, you can learn to live with the reality of your horrific, and life is better without them.
I'm glad to hear you are returning to work. I think it's a good idea to seek solitude when coming to terms with this stuff, but isolating too much can make things worse. Even people who have not experienced abuse and trauma get depressed when they have too much time to think - the dump truck shows-up filled will all the negatives of life.
Go slow, find safe people. Do things that make you feel good and be gentle with yourself. It's time to give yourself the love you never got from the people who were supposed to love you. Also, take your time finding someone to talk to about this stuff. Seeing a trauma specialist who specializes in *inflicting* trauma is the last thing you need. Sorry you had such bad experiences with therapists, but you are not alone in that regard. It is hard work to find a good one ( I gave up looking). But it sounds like you're aware of what makes a bad one. Basically, if they make you feel worse, get out!
Welcome to the club of family freak show survivors. I'm glad you found you way here.
Thanks for the reply.
DeleteWhat you say about never really recovering sounds to me to be more realistic. I think I’ve been sold this idea that I am damaged and have to heal. But like you said a parent that looses a child never really gets over that, just learns to live with it.
Think I’m giving up on therapy, the only people who really get it are fellow ACON’s - Ive received much better advice from blogs like this one. It’s also inspiring to see the strength you show given what you have been through.
"I think I've been sold on this idea that I am damaged and have to heal."
DeleteThis continual brain washing of adult children of narcissists really pisses me off. We are the so-called "problem" in our N families because we escape to save ourselves. Then we become the "problem" within the social system because we are manifesting symptoms of abuse. It's a relentless form of finger pointing and blame the victim mentality - there's something wrong with YOU.
Seems to me, the people preaching this ideology are the ones who stand to profit from it - the so-called "international narcissistic abuse recovery experts." These self-proclaimed healers are always people who CHOSE to be in relationships with narcissists. Maybe they are mentally ill and do need healing, because who in their right mind would put up with narcissistic abuse if they didn't have to? Being born into it is a different can of worms. Reconciling the fact that the people who were supposed to love and protect us (our blood) want to systematically destroy us is not something you "heal" from. Get real. We can accept it, and detach from it and live our lives free of these monsters and their influence, and life can be good. But there will always be a hole. I choose to admit that I have a hole in me. I believe that's a lot healthier than "pretending" that I don't. The hole exists and I let it be. And by knowing it exists and allowing it to be, I don't try to fill it up with crap that will harm me, or temporarily blind me from the fact that it exists. Acceptance of what was and what is, is very fucking liberating.
I think there seriously needs to be a website like the sex offender registry but for MNs/sociopaths baring full name, several photos and location of these subhumans. It's a serious matter of public safety and I thinks it's horrible that such a website doesn't exist already.
ReplyDeleteAs long as these monsters limit their crimes against humanity to only those near and dear, no one really cares or wants to believe they exist. And most of these abusers "act" like the sweetest people in the world outside the family institution. Even law enforcement can be fooled be their performances. There should be mandatory education for children (and adults) to learn about the dangers of mind control and manipulation. Unfortunately, we live in a world where our minds have been controlled for generations and we're not meant to know that our thinking is not our own. Human beings need to examine their own private conscience and get centered because as long as you are divorced from your center, you will be open to manipulation. My wish is that the human race wises-up and recognizes these mutants before they have a chance to feed and breed.
DeleteLisette,
ReplyDeleteThanks for getting back to me, your words of wisdom really helped. I tried to post the following day, have tried a couple times now, but page keeps clicking off. Is it there or here? I'm going to send this first before it goes off, please let me know and if there is an alternative route? Thanks.
Lisette,
ReplyDeleteI can totally relate to your feelings being hurt that your brother would believe lies about you, spread by those with a personal agenda. That's what hurt me too (that and losing the relationship over it). And I even asked mine in an e-mail where my credibility had gone? And if I had seemed a liar on his visit? And if not, why was I not believed when I said I had not done that which I was being accused? Anyway, it seems that in the real world one needs to actually "do" something to ruin their credibility-apparently not so in the make-believe world of the narcissist and their followers! And it was through trying to come to terms with this, that I began to recognize his "cult-like" behavior. It was truly the only explanation I could come up with as to why he would turn a blind eye onto the abuse I had been subjected to by his Narc wife (common law, 23 years. He keeps proposing hoping one day to get a "yes". Actually he got one when she proposed to him on Valentines Day on the eve of his visit to me in March two years ago. He said he was crying tears of happy. She was to come up with the date it would happen within the year. It's been two, nothing more has been said) but I digress.
One evening, standing in our kitchen I said to my husband that he was exhibiting symptoms of Stockholm Syndrome. And it was through researching this that I eventually came upon your blog. That and BPD, which is what I thought my mother may have suffered from before I found your bog and you ticked every box of every behavior and tactic I had been exposed to my entire life ( or at least the years she was in it. Going to post this and continue in another blog before I potentially lose this.
Hi Lisette,
ReplyDeleteIts me again. Let me see if I can get this done. I had my first AHA moment regarding my MNM 's condition, and then I had another which I would like to share. While we were still in touch she asked me about a particular writer whose books I read religiously and about a certain parable in particular which she recalled was Friends. She said she recalled the profound affect my reading of this to her had had and then she began to recite what she coucalled this and ld recall of it. " My friend, you do not see the real me, but the cloth I west to protect my nakedness and your prying eyes..." or something very similar. I recalled this and went on line and looked up Khalil Gibran The Madman clicked on Friends and HAD a real big AHA MOMENT! Tell me what you think. And while you're there, check out "scarecrow" and "sleepwalkers" too.
Crazy they are. Once, I asked my mother how was her evening, and she told me in the most serious tone you can imagine that she had a long fight with god because he is yet to deliver all she deserves. So I asked her if he answered back. She said frowning “Of course he did!”
ReplyDeleteVery thought provoking the part where you talk about the damage they cause to their brain. A few years ago she had an MRI scan that revealed big brain lesions, which the doctors couldn’t explain where they originated from. The truth is she keeps getting worse and losing control of herself as time goes by. Loved your post.
Hey Lissete! So gad you are back! We just held our second AutHaven Autistic retreat [I couldn't have done it without you] and I am probably moving to Florida near some of my children. I am also still in remission. I have a problem with NC. I do it, and do it well for a period. Until I get a "kumbaya" moment where I insanely think I can fix everything with love [gag, but I do this] so, with the assistance of my husband, sons and [older] grandkids,I am going to fake my death. Crazy? For sure an for certain,but less crazy than NOT doing it. for me anyway. this will keep me from contacting them. And if they find out eventuallyz? I don't give a shit. In less than a year [health permitting, counting on the denial they taught me to keep me going] I will be playing on the beach in Daytona surrounded by people that I love, who love me back.The first year or 2 I will be living halftime between CO and FL, so I will still have AutHaven here until someone can take over. I'm sorry. So off subject, but I feel like I am filling a dear friend I have not seen for a while with the latest news. I love you!
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to add, as an autistic person, we are wired to not lie. We tend to be anal about it, and the thought of lying tends to make us ill. This lie is a WHOPPER [60 years saving up] and I am so feeling good about this. They will need to find another in the family unit to start eating alive and I am so okay with that [another new emotion]
ReplyDeleteVicky, that certainly is a whopper and it seems like a heck of a lot of trouble to go to for a bunch of lousy narcissists. I'm sorry to hear you're struggling with NC and I hope you can find the strength to avoid those horrible people knowing they will never change and the only purpose you serve in their eyes is as an object they can use to abuse. But it sounds like you already know that.
DeleteI'm having a hard time figuring out the difference between malignant narcissism and just narcissism. Really. They are the same, right? Just one is more pervasive than the other?? Must work on this more. I have a NMIL, and I'm thinking she's malignant, because while she's worse sometimes than others, she's always been this way. She can maintain no relationship longer than a year ... then they catch on to her and flee!!
ReplyDeleteThis difference is predation. Malignant narcissists actively prey on people. They 'go out of their' way to harm others. It's the stalking of their prey that makes them dangerous. Stalking can be as simple as making phones calls to dig-up dirt on someone who has gone no contact, to spreading false information about their target.
DeleteMy sister is just this she is always trying to put me down and ask me hows work, when she knows that i hate that place. She lives off my misery. So when i tell her bad news she spreads it everywhere trying to put me down to her friend, my family and the people at her work that does not even know me. She always tries to find things in my life to spread. And in my efforts to stay away from her I told my son never to go over to her house so in turn she tried to tell people that she thinks i would sleep with my son. She has been seen by a psychiatrist a couple of times, but it doesnt do her any good. I am cutting my ties with this evil woman.
ReplyDeleteHate my Sister, good username! You can't get anymore direct than that. Yes, stay away from her. The more abuse she gets away with, the worse she will become. I repeat: she will get worse. You do not want to know what people like her are capable of and the only way to find out is for her to have information about you and access to you.
Delete