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A Skinsuit
Malignant Narcissist is a female MN whose all-consuming envy and pathological
greed is so out of control that she is driven to not only take from you, and destroy
you, and everything you have, she must BECOME you in the process. She wants
your life, she wants to BE you. And she won't stop until she is in your skin and you are vapour.
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Wow! You just described my sister! She has always been so jealous and envious of me. I am so glad I found your blog. You have helped me to understand my family and why I have wisely want nothing to do with them.
ReplyDeleteRita, I'm sorry to hear I described your sister. Yikes! I feel your pain. It's good to know you have nothing to do with your family. You're better off without them.
DeleteSounds too much like the Barbarian!
DeleteShe's not called "The Barbarian" for nothing.
DeleteYet another post to describe what I'm living as we speak? Wow! There's so much I'd like to say about this post, but for now I'll talk about something other than my evil bitch of a mother. :)
ReplyDeleteThe woman who has been trying desperately to turn my ass into a skin suit is a woman that my husband used to date...I should have known that something was off as the first comment she made when she met me was, "Oh, I didn't expect you to be so pretty." Ummm...Whatever happened to nice to meet you? She was overly friendly and spent that evening following me around asking a lot of questions (this does not happen where I live); in hindsight I can see that she was on a fact-finding mission.
Fast forward to a couple of months later. I saw pictures of this bitch on the internet...wearing tights, high heeled boots and a sexy top. Seems that she upgraded her style to mine - major change from the jeans and sweatshirts that she used to wear. In subsequent photos I noticed dark nail polish, and a certain type of makeup (my signature look) - all different from what she was doing before. All that's left is for her to dye her hair blonde, and she'd be a shorter, much uglier version of me.
I started finding out from people that she has been trying to do quite a bit of research about me; asking anyone who knows me what I do, how I act ect. Even my stupid husband, who is still "friends" with her managed to unwittingly fill her in on some of this information, so more and more like me she became. Thanks to him, she's managed to pick up a new hobby of cooking with exotic spices (or trying to anyway. lol)
When she STILL couldn't manage to get my husband away from me, the harassing text messages and phone calls started. I responded with something like, "go find a huge cock to swallow you pathetic whore", so maybe messing with me wasn't as much fun as she had hoped it would be. After that, she started spreading rumors about me, pretty much telling anyone who would listen that my husband was with me out of pity; that I was some kind of loser who couldn't support herself, so he was stuck with me. She also claimed that he really wanted her. There were a few times where she even lead people to believe that my husband and I were separated, and that they were together.
What it comes down to is that this woman wants to be me; she wants my life. In her delusional mind, all that's standing in between her and her fantasy life is me...which I've been told makes her very dangerous. If she directly approached me, without a doubt I would break her in half, but sadly these people don't work this way. They'll do a drive by, burn your house down, or find some other way to destroy your life.
The worst part of this is that I'm pregnant, just now entering my second trimester. I hope that my belly stays small for as long as possible because when my pregnancy becomes public knowledge, I believe that I'll have one extra reason to be concerned for my safety. It's a shame that I have to even worry about this during one of the happiest times of my life.
The irony here is that I spent over 30 years getting rid of MN mother, but didn't get to enjoy the benefits of NC for too long - this bitch stepped in almost immediately to replace her. *sigh*
ANON
ANON, That is brutal; to FINALLY get rid of an evil MN mother only to have her replaced by an evil Skinsuit MN. It takes stamina to deal with these crazy evil MN bitches, and that you have! I am sorry for what you are going through, but little does this Skinsuit MN know that you're a pro when it comes to dealing with her kind. Even with your understanding of these creatures, I understand how unsettling it is to have a monster like her in your life. Skinsuit Robin gave me 5 years off and on telephone terrorism and she knew where I lived so I always had that "feeling" and I had to watch my back. It wasn't until I moved to the opposite end of the country that I actually felt safe from her. The nightmares cropped-up years later. That shit really hit me on a subconscious level. Once I went NC it was just telephone harassment, but it was harassment nonetheless and that meant I was constantly under threat. That is a scary, unsettling way to live. As TW wrote, "This is one situation where the type of vigilance or hyper-alertness to one's surroundings as manifested in PTSD is actually a "Good Quality," IMO. It'll keep you alive." I'll second that. In these situations you can never be too careful or suspicious of anything.
DeleteI wish I had some concrete advice on what to do, but we all know these MNs are insanely evil and unpredictable. Even when we normal folks try to "think like a MN" we usually cannot come close to conceiving any of the crazy shit they pull. However, you are coming across to her as a rock that can't be pushed and that's good. The text was awesome! Keep on letting her know she is an insignificant piece of shit. Maybe introduce her to a new exotic spice laced with a little somethin' somethin' from your own private herb garden - if you get my drift. And, get a freakin Maligator as a watch dog!
This article gave me the willies, because my sister copies my mother to the point me and my brother have called her my mother's "mini-me",I think my sister could be an N too now though not as cunning as my mother. It has been distressing to watch my sister for years copy my mother in exact hairstyles, dress, behavior, extreme cleanliness, and she even has chosen the same style of houses to live in as my mother before and tried to have three children like my mother, but ended up with twins on the third pregnancy. One thing about both my sister and mother, the statement "there is no there there" hits massively home. This statement hit massively home for me...."There is nothing essential about them; they have no genuine feelings, no deeply held opinions, no idiosyncrasies, no individual style, no personal vision and no passion for anything. " In fact this is something that has stood out to me. One thing my family is on a Facebook, and my NM mother I think was so upset noticing that I had all of the above, she wrote the family a letter saying that a list of deep topics would not be allowed at a family gathering, she wanted to tell us what to talk about. Those things have been thwarted for me my entire life, that in my case, it served as a catalyst to indeed have my own personal style, opinions, activism, beliefs, causes and more. Sometimes I think it is something they hate me for, and that letter was to tell me to reign it in. I am LC but I did not show up because of that letter. I am too different to have picked up a skin suit, not high status enough in society, probably not copy-able in my case, but I know I have watched it in action between my sister and mother. One can see the emptiness for themselves. It is terrible. One of my friends saw a picture of my sister, and exclaimed that she looks like she never grew up inside. I would say that is true. I was close to my sister growing up as much as a scapegoat can be with a GC, but I saw the change when she hit the late teens and was intent on becoming my mother.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, Congratulations for rebelling against the N dictatorship and becoming your own person. The fact that you are too different and not copy-able to have picked up as a skinsuit speaks of your uniqueness.
Delete"Sometimes I think it is something they hate me for, and that letter was to tell me to reign it in."
Oh yes, don't those Ns ALWAYS want us to reign in our passion and opinions and beliefs. They want us to reign in our "self" because being an individual threatens the poor little vacant narcissist. Your N mother even decides what you are allowed to talk about. You have a personality; you have a YOU. THAT makes Ns extremely uncomfortable because they know you're not controllable, and THAT makes the N feel out of control. They hate that - feeling out of control. Being in the presence of a spirited person frightens and enrages the narcissist. I'm gald you're not playing by their sick rules.
Thanks Lisette, yes I definitely rebelled against the N dictatorship. The enablers all ran into their usual roles, but I don't regret that I spoke out. In the stinking cauldron of the NFOO, unique individuals can sometimes be born out of all the muck. Yes you nailed it, my entire life, was being told to reign in my passions, opinions and beliefs, they hated that I was artistic and a creative type. Yes I have a YOU, and you are so right about them being uncomfortable with that. They do hate it. Just the fact a person may exist and have a soul and a personality they really do not like that! I refuse to play by sick rules that tell me to censor myself.
DeleteThat "Stare"-I know that, I've experienced it and it's beyond creepy. It always felt to me as if I was being visually "eaten alive" by the MN Predator. This goes way beyond imitation or copying your look or your talents/interests etc. to the very core of your being. Every *last* detail they can suss out about you they devour, seeking out friends, neighbors, employers etc. It's just scary.
ReplyDeleteAll though they're all Predators, these are the ones I personally consider the most dangerous to your health: These are the "Bunny Boilers" of the world, the one's who truly wish you dead so they can fulfill their crazy delusion of actually being you without the "inconvenience" of a real "you" still breathing and walking this planet. I have no doubt given an opportunity, they will attempt to kill you or your family members/loved ones. This is one situation where the type of vigilance or hyper-alertness to one's surroundings as manifested in PTSD is actually a "Good Quality," IMO. It'll keep you alive.
Of course an individual(s) can not be arrested based on what they might do and by the time the damage is done, the victim is fortunate to have survived. What the Skinsuit Predator can not achieve on their own due to distance, age, infirmity etc. they'll solicit a Flying Monkey Minion to achieve for them with offers of $$$ etc. There certainly is evidence to suggest Psychob was still trying to find someone to harm me up to the time of her death. That's why it was so important for me to get a Risk Analysis after DH died: I felt it was imperative that someone who had credibility knew the history if I met with an "unfortunate accident."
TW
TW, I agree the Bunny Boilers/Skinsuit MNs are the most dangerous. The "Patchwork Skinsuit" N I wrote about was callous and cruel and predatory but she didn't focus on just one target, and when it comes to MNs this is a good thing: for them to spread-out their vicious energy. I would say "Patchwork" was borderline malignant because she didn't go out of her way to harm her targets. Of course, when it came to pilferng their lives, she didn't give a shit if anyone got hurt along the way. I'm sure the resulting carnage was a nice bonus for her. The full-on MN Skinsuits want to "remove" you and "assume" you. Yup, we are nothing but an inconvenience to them like a fly buzzing around their head. I also believe they are entirely capable of murder, but that their homicidal tendencies are acted out, for the most part, in the realm of the mind. In other words, most of the female Skinsuit MN's efforts are directed toward psychological murder; they want to drive their victims mad, or to suicide. But psychological murder is just one step away from physical murder and since the impulse is always there; if the mind games, and mental terrorism doesn't work the Skinsuit MN will take you out physically and hire a hit man or use a monkey that is completely under their control. And Oh THE STARE. I will never forget it. Visually "eaten alive" is the perfect way to describe the stare.
ReplyDelete"And, get a freakin Maligator as a watch dog!"
ReplyDeleteIs your sister available by any chance? LMAO!
Great point about the hypervigilance that comes as part of the lovely PTSD package - it's beneficial in situations like these. I have to confess that this is one thing that I have always disliked about myself - my baseline is so much higher than that of a *normal* person. In my most relaxed state, I still am hyper aware of my surroundings with a slightly elevated pulse and blood pressure, and if anything that feels remotely threatening comes up, my reaction is magnified 100 times over. I have no real ability to relax, which is probably one of the reasons I have chronic neck and back pain, and a lack of energy.
Sometimes I feel like I'm strong and can take on any nasty N that dares cross my path, then there are other times where I'm so tired of dealing with the b.s. that I just want to isolate myself on an uninhabited island somewhere...Better yet, I wish we could round all of their asses up and ship them to that island. Lisette could turn it into a reality TV show where we could tune in and watch them devour each other for breakfast. :)
As an aside, that stare is one thing that I will never forget. MN mother would stare at me the way that an animal in the wild would stare at its prey right before attacking. I couldn't hold the gaze of those icy blue, dead fish looking eyes for even a second, and would find myself uncomfortable enough to look away every time.
ANON
"In my most relaxed state,I'm hyper aware of my surroundings "
Delete"I have no real ability to relax"
I can so relate to this. Besides having nfoo, I've been in other situations that have escalated this.
Funny, I was just thinking of the same about all of the pathological people and their cohorts going to an island together. That would be interesting.
I get tired of having to deal with narcs too. They are freaking everywhere. I don't have a problem getting in their faces but it would be nice to just relax mentally. I can't and won't let my guard down because it seems like every time I do, there just happens to be another pathological person I have to deal with.Even if it is brief. These people really piss me off...
Living in fight or flight mode is exhausting. When I'm faced with challenging people or situations I either want to take them head on, or go hide. Usually I start out by isolating and ignoring the problem but then I remember all of the injustices that I have faced in my life and that awakens the fighter in me. I will not tolerate anyone violating my rights. Some battles aren't worth fighting, but if anyone screws with my home environment, my personal property, my career, my reputation, or people I love and care about then look-out. These Skinsuit MNs do just that; they go after people's entire lives. There should be lawyers specializing in this kind of intrusion. But like TW said, an individual cannot be arrested based on what they might do. But if a "pattern" has emerged in someone's behavior that is cause for concern, and that can be reported to law enforcement. That won't stop the MN though. Yeah, I think the only way to stop them is to "contain" them.
ReplyDelete"I wish we could round all of their asses up and ship them to that island. Lisette could turn it into a reality TV show where we could tune in and watch them devour each other for breakfast."
Yesterday I was thinking of exactly this. Anna wrote in a comment that at the end of her MNM's life her rottenness turned on her and she died from gangrene. I thought wouldn't it be great if their rottenness turned on ALL MNs and they were struck down with a type of leprosy and they had to be colonized. My fantasy is that with every cruel act and evil deed the MN committed it would attack their body like a sore or a lesion or an infection. The more evil the deed the bigger the infections. And they would all rot together on a deserted island; that's MY "Fantasy Island." It's a riff on the story of Dorian Grey. Oh how I wish the MNs ugly infected souls manifested on their physical bodies and appearance. Though sometimes that happens. I've seen the nastiness permanently imprinted on many a MNs face. They are the kind of people that you step away from when you encounter them in public because they give-off such bad energy.
I once stared down a MN at work. She was trying to micro-manage me and I wasn't having it so I said something and she just stared right into my eyes. That shit didn't work on me and I just stared back. So there we were staring down each other for what seemed like minutes. The MN broke away first, but I didn't win because the bitch had seniority and when she found out I was hired back for a contract in another department she was furious and she got the organization to revoke it. I remember going to that office to meet up with a co-worker friend and her scanning/staring me down like a predator when I walked past her desk. I made sure to laugh and smile a lot. The bitch didn't break me and she knew it. I even got a nice little compensation package from the employer because they knew they had no grounds to break my contract; they were just keeping the MN freak from exploding. These MN are so off-putting, I can't believe they can even get jobs, but isn't it interesting how they get away with poisoning and controlling all the environments they inhabit? This MN co-worker was a nobody yet people were afraid of her because she was so weird. She reminded me of MN sister.
Yeah. Round them all up and send them to the MN Leper Colony.
"Living in fight or flight mode is exhausting"
ReplyDeleteYou got this right!!! I could never figure out what was up with my lack of energy and poor physical health for YEARS! I went to doctors, took vitamins, and did all kinds of other things to correct this, but nothing really ever improved...Until I went NC. After calming down from the initial shock, my hair started growing back (much of it had fallen out), my nails started growing to a point where I had to cut them, I stopped getting sick as often, and had more energy than ever before. It's amazing what dealing with these monsters can do to us physically!
As an aside, I was wondering if anyone noticed that these monsters have WAY more energy then they should have. When evilb was young, she worked full-time, had 2 kids, kept a clean home, and still managed to find the time and energy to chase her husband around, turn over trash cans, and otherwise destroy people's lives. She did all of this on 4-5 hours of sleep per night! The MN skinsuit woman who I was referring to above is the same way - works 2 jobs, takes care of 5 kids, and still finds time to be extremely destructive. Coincidence or not?
I love the idea of all of the MN rottenness turning inward - hope it happens to all of them some day. Evilb will for sure turn into nothing more than a large chunk of gangrenous flesh!
ANON
Of course they have more energy -- they're stealing everybody else's 24/7. Imagine if they were bank robbers who never had to worry about getting caught. They'd have way more money than you too.
Delete"It's amazing what dealing with these monsters can do to us physically!"
ReplyDeleteI hear that! My nervous system is permanently damaged because of these monsters. I don't think I've ever experienced true relaxation in my life. I've never felt safe enough to truly relax.
"I was wondering if anyone noticed that these monsters have WAY more energy then they should have. When evilb was young, she worked full-time, had 2 kids, kept a clean home, and still managed to find the time and energy to chase her husband around, turn over trash cans, and otherwise destroy people's lives. She did all of this on 4-5 hours of sleep per night! The MN skinsuit woman who I was referring to above is the same way - works 2 jobs, takes care of 5 kids, and still finds time to be extremely destructive. Coincidence or not?"
First off, LMAO to "turning over trash cans, and otherwise destroy people's lives." I swear, these MNs like the evil bitch "Hulk" are just running on adrenaline fueled by sheer hatred and rage. It's surprising these Mother F**kers don't experience intense burn-out. Even The Hulk was able to morph back into a mild-mannered physicist.
Some of these MNs are really manic and hyper and others seem to be more stealth and snakey: they slink in and out and around and then suddenly attack without warning. I guess it all boils down to getting to know what kind of MN you're dealing with. I believe they're all running on sheer malevolence it's just a matter of how they release their vicious energy.
"love the idea of all of the MN rottenness turning inward - hope it happens to all of them some day. Evilb will for sure turn into nothing more than a large chunk of gangrenous flesh!"
She already is a large chunk of gangrenous flesh, it's just that she's still in human form. They all exist in human form, but they are far from human.
The energy manifestations in the Dracula metaphor - the theft of the target victim's energy revitalises and sustains the parasite vampire -(I think Count Dracula is a literary and spiritual metaphor for Malignant Narcs) describe it best for me. It's NOT that these narcs are inherently and naturally hyper-energised creatures. The more hyper-energised they seem only means they have prey near by and accessible to and controlled by them. Dracula sucks blood. They relentlessly suck on their victims' soul energies. Dracula/the Narcs want to reduce their victims to either death, or a hopeless state of dependency and exploitation, (what they intended to do to us) or to a carbon copy of themselves (the golden child). My energy didn't recover until I had been in recovery for a long time (years, decades) though maybe that was just me going at my pace. I was able to reclaim almost everything else - eg the capacity for joy in being - before the energy returned. I didn't think it would happen at all, though it did and quite recently. It was the most surprising thing of all in my long journey to recovery. I'm not yet clear on how or why it happened now. That's a mystery I am only beginning to unravel.
ReplyDelete"The more hyper-energised they seem only means they have prey near by and accessible to and controlled by them. Dracula sucks blood. They relentlessly suck on their victims' soul energies."
ReplyDeleteOooh that is so interesting. I have seen this in action, anna. A narc getting all giddy and hyper when they have a fresh kill (prey) and just non-stop burning the candle at both ends. They are literally feeding off their prey's energy. Of course, when the prey wises-up and leaves them in the dust, the narc crashes and burns. So I can only imagine how a MNM with a child to prey on, a husband to prey on, and people at work to prey on - to name a few - could get totally hyper-energised. So we/prey literally are their life force. I guess it's true that narcs bite the dust when they have no supply left. We should all "strave the vampire" as they say.
Energy recovering is also interesting. I have lived most of my life in fight or flight mode (because of narc abuse) and I am now coming to understand how effed-up my nervous system is. One thing I know for certain is that after I was in a relationship/exploited by a narc/any narc, I was freakin' exhausted; completely drained! But those parasites always had a spring in their step and boat loads of energy after they drained me dry.
"the theft of the target victim's energy revitalises and sustains the parasite vampire."
So true. Some people may view this comparison as too "Gothic" and dismiss it, but let me tell you, if you've experienced an energy sucking Narcissist in your life then you will see them as the Vampires they are, and as anna said, "I think Count Dracula is a literary and spiritual metaphor for Malignant Narc." I couldn't agree more. They are parasites; they feed off our energy and they suck the life out of us. Normal people don't make us feel this way.
I don't think I have ever had anyone want to be me but my foo always one ups me and steals anyone or anything they can from me. Also, I just recently discovered that what my family has done so often is what i have learned here is a "smear campaign."
ReplyDeleteI am a high functioning autistic[Aspergers] and I have consciously picked out people to emulate as far as fashion, makeup, body movements etc. The reason being that i am basically "retarded" as far as simply picking up cues. Also, i know that MN's use scripts alot. Well, so do I. In my case it's not to portray myself as someone different than i actually am but to know the appropriate way to express what I am feeling inside[ fear of saying or doing the wrong thing is a huge part of the anxiety Aspies experience]
What you have all described sounds horrible [their attacks on me come in different forms. they would never wish to be me] That being said, please remember that there are some people who may be mirroring you simply because they are trying to figure out how to follow the [mostly ridiculous and pretentious] rules to fit into a neural typical world. I am super uncomfortable posting this because I am terrified i might offend someone or make someone going through think i am belittling them. Just wanted you to know that SOMETIMES we aspies will copy someone when they sense they need to modernize their presentation.
I hope this makes sense. BTW, I LOVE this place. I honestly believe that lissette may have saved my life. I KNOW she has helped me see that I no longer will pay for and take on the pain of others evilness.
Anonymous, you make a really good point. Not all people who copy/mirror/imitate are doing it for deranged purposes. Some people mirror others in order to fit-in and function in society and others may imitate because they truly admire a person's style, posture, body movements and personality. Imitation is the highest form of flattery as they say. The difference is, the "Skinsuits" mentioned in the post and in comments do not "admire" their targets or even feel neutral about them; they secretly "despise" them. What starts out as seemingly harmless imitation turns into unhealthy obsession and the acting out of malicious envy. We all "borrow" from others here and there and emulate from time to time, but we don't do it with sinister intent. Also, we don't do it to become somebody, we already know who we are.
DeleteThanks again for your post Anonymous. Your last sentence really made my day; that is so good to hear!
I believe this is my first time posting here, but I have been reading this blog for a while, and often come back to certain entries because they are very informative. Anyway, yeah, there is definitely a difference between healthy admiration of another person in terms of that person's personality traits and what that person has accomplished, and then hostile feelings like envy and contempt. The one thing I can say about myself is that I am rarely jealous of anyone else, not because I necessarily have a lot in my own life, but because I just don't really care all that much about possessions or having what other people have, but I do have respect for what others have been able to do with thier lives.
DeleteIt's funny but reading this entry reminded me of the drama that is currently going on between a bunch of family members that star on one of the Real Housewives shows on Bravo. The New Jersey installment. If any of you watch that installment and keep up with the blogs, one of the cast members on the show is viewed by a lot of people as being a malignant narcissist who has basically tried to copy her sister-in-law (another cast member on the show, who got cast on the show first)on just about everything. There is a blogger who has pointed out this copying, even showing pictures of exactly how this person copies her sister-in-law, and it is quite creepy to see the extent to which this woman goes to copy her sister-in-law. The cast members of these shows have to have accounts on Twitter and post about the goings on in their lives, and the copycat basically waits for her sister in law to post pictures and comments, and then she copies those things nearly exactly and posts them. It's so ridiculous that the copycat saw a picture of her sister-in-law's niece sipping on a slurpee before going to see a movie, and the very next day, the copycat posted the exact same picture of her own son sipping on a slurpee before going to see the exact same movie. All of this just speaks to what you said about how these types of narcisssists are completely devoid of self, and will go to extreme lengths to be a parasite on someone else's life.
"All of this just speaks to what you said about how these types of narcisssists are completely devoid of self, and will go to extreme lengths to be a parasite on someone else's life."
DeleteYeah, that and the fact they are living in a completely separate reality from the rest of us. The fact that this woman isn't even cognizant of her behavior speaks of how out of touch she is. Slipping on a slurpee?! I bet if the object of her obsession was in an accident and broke her leg, she would find some way to break her own leg. That would be an interesting test: have the target fake a broken leg and see what she does. She would probably break 2 just to one up her. I haven't seen the New Jersey installment of Real Houswives, but out of curiosity I have watched the one they have in my city. I believe being a narcissist must be a requirement to get on these shows because they are all about jealousy, envy, pettiness, greed and competition. Some of the women are absolutely scary, soulless, dead-eyed monsters. One in particular is completely delusional. I stopped watching the show because it's too painful to witness vacant, empty, shallow people go about their empty, shallow lives. Truth be told: I find them all BORING.
What I find amazing is when reading the blogs and Facebook about these housewives, that how many people are actually on the nars/socios side.Delusional people side with delusional people. Their are just so many of them out there.
Delete"Slipping on a slurpee?! I bet if the object of her obsession was in an accident and broke her leg, she would find some way to break her own leg. That would be an interesting test: have the target fake a broken leg and see what she does. She would probably break 2 just to one up her."
Delete@Lisette, yep, the copycat really went out of her way to take a photo of her own son sipping on a Slurpee drink just like her sister-in-law's daughter was dong the day before, before going to see a movie. When I saw the pics side by side, I couldn't believe she would go to that extreme by copying such an unimportant occurence. But it seems with these people, they will copy and imitate even the littlest, most mundane actions of others, and thier targets microbehaviors. This cast member has really gone out of her way to become like her sister-in-law, and has been cruel enough to accuse her sister-in-law of all manner of negative things to try to hurt her reputation. But regardless of her attempts at destruction, I think a lot of people recognize this monster for what she is, and she does not have the kind of popularity with the viewing audience that her sister-in-law does, even though she thinks she's a star.
I never tuned into most of the Housewives installments becase of exactly what you described about the people who end up on these shows. There are a few normal ones in the bunch who had their stuff together before being cast, but most of them do seem highly self-absorbed if not all out narcissistic. And what really annoys me is that the most narcissistic, bullying , meanspirited of the cast members seem to end up getting the most attention and opportunities outside of their shows, because that's what a lot of people seem to value.
When you are being sucked dry by Narcs, and you don't yet have any inkling of what is going on, and you internalise their perverted blame and diminishment, you experience this terrible emptiness in your self which is extremely painful. And you label this emptiness your "self" and mistake it for yourself and you want to fill it with something better and you look for that better in other people who aren't always hurting you and who exhibit happiness and comfort with themselves. And you think "I don't want to be like me, I want to be like them".
ReplyDeleteSo you emulate them, hoping that this will ease your pain. That's a really different process from the Narcs' takeover of others' selves, which is a form of theft, like literary plagiarism.
Also, having grown up with abnormal, you want to learn from healthier people what normal IS, and the copying is a delayed version of what normal young children get to do in normal families - normal meaning families at least committed to offspring welfare, not destruction.
How often I have read interviews where people have talked about "being comfortable in their own skin" and this used to totally mystify me, I had no idea what they meant. Probably because I had never felt comfortable. I think they meant they felt whole without empty spaces or places in themselves that felt either painful or empty (which is also very painful).
But copying role models only works so far, because copying behaviours change inner feelings and experience. It's painful to realise we have to go deeper into our own pain and damage to find a way through and out of it, more pain... and we are loathe to do this, because we have already suffered so much. How much more can we take? I was very resentful of having to suffer even more pain to start healing what the Narcs had inflicted on me; I saw that as yet another loss, another injustice. I wanted something easier, I wanted "magic wand healing" really, someone to just take all the crap away and leave peace in its place. For a long time healing seemed to be almost as much of a raw deal as suffering was. I was ashamed of wanting so much to be loved and nurtured by a non-toxic other and hid my needs beneath a feigned indifference which was hurtful to others and my self. Eventually I learned that it was not others I really wanted to be like; it was that I wanted to be like my SELF - the person I really was, beyond all the abuse and conditioning and wounds inflicted by Narcs - which I had for so long MISTAKEN AS MY SELF. The Pain was the only part of my real Self that I was still consciously connected to, so I came to value it at last (it took some time) and the doors of healing opened a bit more for me. I believe that our healing requires us to go where normal people never have to go. (Yet we learn things there, ultimately, that normal people never get a chance to learn, about the meaning of being a human being).
We have all read about families in third world maiming their children so that they could exploit them as beggars (and I saw this in my travels in the third world) and I recoiled in utter, appalled horror, my soul wept. But reading all the testament on HOM, I have realised the parallel process that happened to all of us: we were maimed by the malignant narcs so that they could exploit our lives, they turned us into beggars too, trying to live on mere scraps of positivity in the outside world. The difference is that we can heal the wounds the Narcs inflicted. Observing and trialling the normal behaviour of non-toxic others is as good a starting place as any, so far as I can see. It was a phase I passed through too.
Anna, this comment is hitting home more than you ever could know!
ReplyDelete"Also, having grown up with abnormal, you want to learn from healthier people what normal IS, and the copying is a delayed version of what normal young children get to do in normal families - normal meaning families at least committed to offspring welfare, not destruction."
You are describing here what I did as a teen, and as a young adult. I remember very clearly going to BBQs, or other gatherings involving families, and just staring at them like I was watching TV. No one screaming, not one throwing things - what the hell was wrong with these people? lol I can only imagine how much of a freak I must have appeared to be by sitting there observing them like I did!
"How often I have read interviews where people have talked about "being comfortable in their own skin" and this used to totally mystify me, I had no idea what they meant. Probably because I had never felt comfortable. I think they meant they felt whole without empty spaces or places in themselves that felt either painful or empty (which is also very painful)."
I've heard this statement many times, but don't quite understand because I have never felt comfortable. Sadly, after 1 1/2 years of NC with evilb (mother), I still don't even know who I am. Perhaps the comfort will follow figuring that out? :)
And to the Aspie Anonymous, thank you for reminding us about mirroring for that purpose...I would like to add that there's a world of difference between the mirroring of an Aspie and what these jerkoffs do. An Aspie mirrors for the same reason I did - to learn what's normal (I'm NT, but growing up with a monster for a mother left me with the need to study what *normal* was). These are definitely innocent, harmless reasons to mirror, which is the polar opposite of why a MN would do it. They mirror with an intent to destroy, take from, or otherwise harm their target...No worries Anonymous - I fully believe that ACoNs can tell the difference between the two. :)
ANON
Aspie, I am really glad you arrived here too. Your fear of us thinking you are belittling us - sounds like the narcs really tried their worst to silence your perceptions in the slimy ways they do by undermining your freedom to self expression. (Typical of Narcs). I am confident that your aspie allegiance to the truth will be highly valued here, so go for it! Do what the Narcs so hate: find your voice and speak your truth. Only then can we reflect back to you our appreciation of your insight.
ReplyDeleteHey Anon/Aspie? Glad you're here. And I'm really sorry about the "Slime and Smear Campaign" you're burdened with at this time. Truly, this is right out of the MN "Handbook" and yes, it's beyond belief the people who "should" love us, care for and about us etc. don't: OUCH. The Smear Campaign speaks to Power and Control, NOT Reconciliation/Restoration of the relationship. Obviously, through their actions your decision to distance yourself was right on target in terms of self-preservation.
ReplyDeleteThere is in my admittedly limited experience a profound difference in the manner and motivation in which an Aspie goes about developing their social skills and an MN's Skinsuit tactics. The manifestations feel different, appear different because they *are* different most fundamentally because the malignant motivation isn't there with an Aspie. Further, the MN is VERY tuned into/aware of all kinds of non-verbal as well as verbal behavior of their Targets and uses that knowledge to destroy the Target.
I'm kind of a "archetype" in terms of being an old widow with a geriatric cat-just one, OK? ;) I've also had a couple of strokes, so I'm brain-damaged and have the cross-section MRI's/CT's to "prove" it. But those facts are *part* of who and what I'm about, not "all" of me, but the brain damage does inform my life in different ways: What other people may take for granted, I have to struggle with or accommodate some how. Just a fact of my life, yk? There is also more to you than Aspies, but no doubt, it informs your life on a daily basis as well but in a very different way. And it's *not* "All" of who and what you're about.
The MNs are Personality Disordered which means it defines/informs everything about them from their internal bat-shit crazy "reality" to their manifestations in the "pattern of (nasty) behavior." Their PD is who they ARE in their (abhorrent) totality. The MNs leave a stunning Legacy of destruction and mayhem in their wake because they are most fundamentally Predators. And that Predatory behavior manifests itself in all kinds of Power/Control Tactics of which a Smear Campaign is but one manifestation, the Skinsuit is another. This is IMO a conscious, deliberate, targeted assault on the other person to "own" the other, to actually "be" the other, to destroy the other who has affronted the MN by what? Breathing?! Existing? Refusing to participate in the MNs crazy? All of the previous and then some.
I hope this makes sense. Speak your truth and know it will be heard and validated here. MNs are equal opportunity destroyers, the human-like embodiment of Weapons of Mass(ive) Destruction.
TW
It makes perfect sense to me TW, everything you say does. Curiously I too am an aged crone with a geriatic cat - just one, yes! - who has had two strokes. From the first time I read one of your posts I felt profoundly on the same wavelength as you, as if we had grown up in the same family of monsters. And in a way, of course, we did. We all did. In my experience of observing mine and other Narc families of origin, the smear campaign tactics and character assassination are much more common within the family than skin-suiting. The skin suiters I've encountered are Narcs operating outside their families on people they want to snare into their field of malignant influence and association, for their own sinister purposes (what other purposes do Narcs ever have). I've encountered them mostly as work colleagues and neighbours -in reflecting on the ones I met in work environments, they were all alike in that other people described them as "hostile" and they were all profoundly addicted to a substance - food, alcohol (particularly alcohol). In fact all the Narcs I have ever known have had one of these addictions though I hadn't made that connection before today. Please don't think I'm offering addiction as an excuse for their malignant behaviour - I'm most definitely not). They are motivated by their own evil, not substances.
ReplyDelete"I've encountered them mostly as work colleagues and neighbours -in reflecting on the ones I met in work environments, they were all alike in that other people described them as "hostile" and they were all profoundly addicted to a substance - food, alcohol (particularly alcohol). In fact all the Narcs I have ever known have had one of these addiction..."
DeleteI've found that the most dangerous MNs have had no addictions to drugs or alcohol. I don't think MN sister has ever been "drunk" in her life. And I know why: That would mean losing an ounce of control. I remember her having a few drinks on New Years and remarking the next day how she hated the effect of alcohol and didn't like the "feeling" of being out of control. MN mother also didn't drink; though I wish she had because that might have mellowed her constant hate-on. Another vile MN hag I had the misfortune of coming across was an uptight old witch who paraded as a good Christian and she would never have done anything so crazy as having a "drink."
These MN witches need to be in total control 24/7 so having a drink to loosen-up just ain't gonna happen. In my experience, it's the evil MN that drives others to drink and do drugs and other self-destructive acts. I believe a lot of people turn to substances for anxiety and PTSD symptons they don't even know they have; usually caused by abuse by a hateful, cruel "family" member. I've known some garden variety Ns who abuse substances and could be considered alcoholic but never have I known a MN to take anything mind altering. Though I'm sure those same MNs have a whole bunch of other addictions related to greed etc. My experience is that the more evil the MN, the more prissy, uptight, and goody toe shoes she is. And being so perfect makes it so easy for the MN witch to judge and condemn others.
Yes, thankyou Lisette for the refocus, what was true of the workplace narcissists I've worked with can't be generalised to the Malignants. The Malignant Narcmother Hag never drank, though her gross relationship to food was evident in her very fat bloated body, around others she put on a show of eating like the proverbial bird. NMH was an extreme example of the Goody Two Shoes act and yes also the weird body claims, for example she told people she had undergone an emergency hysterectomy (a total fabrication). Anthing medically wrong with her was an emergency, anything wrong with anyone else was imaginary, so did not require any attention from her. And if it was verified as real by others, she would sneer "serves you right" to emphasise that you had brought on yourself by being inherently defective and unworthy, so "God" was justly punishing you with illness, pain and suffering (with her as ever-so-willing helper). She avoided any legitimate requests for help from others by parroting the sanctimonious "God helps those who help themselves" while she fed grossly on them. It was greed per se she was addicted to, not just the food itself. Yep.
DeleteAnna, that sounds very familiar: hypochondria and addictions to food. Though neither MNM or MN sister are over weight they are both gluttons and major carnivores. MN sister was eating red meat like hamburger and steak for breakfast by the time she was 8 and MNM seemed to be always chewing on a bone. Guess those Vampires needed their hemoglobin. I wasn't allowed to be sick either. I could be coughing up blood and MNM would still send me to school; that actually happened and I passed out at my desk and then got screamed at for getting sick and for MNM having to pick me up. MN sister was the only one allowed to be sick in my NFOO and as a result she is a full fledged hypochondriac; that's her life: getting mysterious illnesses and researching them and claiming to be the medical expert on everything. She learned that if she played the "sick one" there was a huge pay off to her like attention, control, and special treatment. Now she's a shut-in hypochndria who is crippled with mysterious illnesses. They are a great way for her to avoid responsibility for her life and still receive assiduous care from N mommy and daddy. She's pathetic. I'm glad she's alway "sick." In some way she got what she deserved. Yeah, I think a lot of these MNs have weird medical issues their bodies and with food.
DeleteThis is so creepily true. They moult their skins and become...you, or a twisted-sister version thereof.
ReplyDeleteMy Personal Narcissist always had what everyone else was having. Your dear friend has breast cancer? So did MPN. Arthritis? Oh, that's nothing; MPN has had all that, too.
She went on a blog to rave about how superior to other women she is, because she doesn't let monthly hormone fluctuations affect her. Of course, she's a senior citizen. Oh, and BTW, although hot flashes normally affect women much younger than her, she is just now starting to have them. Strange thing it didn't happen when she had a complete hysterectomy several decades ago.
They can't see the obvious when they are making complete fools of themselves.
I hope she had her hysterical-ectomy before she could go forth and multiply and inflict more helpless kids with her "Motherly Ministrations." So NOW she's having "Hot Flashes?" Perhaps she's mistaken: Given her age, she's entered the Waiting Room in Hell-and it's gettin' warmer all the time, sweet-stuff! ;) Maybe you could politely inquire if she has a fire extinguisher.
ReplyDeleteThis is the type of old bitch that gets pissed when someone politely inquires if she would like a Senior Citizen's Discount. Gasp! How insulting! Besides, given the MN's proclivity for greediness, entitlement etc. she's likely been pullin' Five-Finger Discounts for years and sees no reason to change now-or "evah."
No, they can't see it and they don't get better with age: They just become more manifestly and "superiorly" rotten and ugly in every way.
TW
Lisette, I think we talked about this before - the one other weird thing we have in common - but evilb was a major carnivore too, and a disgusting one to boot!!! I swear, she'd gnaw away at gristle, tendons, bone fragments and all, then there she'd sit in front of that plate of carcass residue looking oh so satisfied with a greasy semi-smile plastered across her face. Would it surprise anyone to hear that I'm 99% vegetarian? lol
ReplyDeleteAs far as alcohol or drugs go, evilb rarely indulged in drinks and never touched drugs. The few times that she did drink, she would complain about hating the way that it made her feel, even outright telling me that she didn't like the feeling of not being in control. The bitch did a good job of driving me to drink through! lol
Evilb walks around sober and drug-free, going to church, destroying the lives of others, and she has no criminal or psych history. I, on the other hand, have been hospitalized twice for being suicidal as a teen, have been pegged with depression, anxiety, and PTSD. I experimented with all kinds of drugs when I was young and looking for an escape, and damn near turned myself into an alcoholic as an adult just trying to cope with life...Anyone see the irony in this?
ANON
It's interesting that evilb and evil MN sis both didn't like the effects of alcohol and the feeling of not being in control. Poor babies, I'm sure if we tossed them a big juicy T-Bone they would attack it in full force. We could sit back all civilized like with our cocktails and watch them fight over the piece of meat.
DeleteU bet we see it. This is the damage they do - it's like being fed meals with poison in them every day of your growing life and what you describe as the effects on you are pretty typical of the vulnerable battered oppressed soul in my experience. Of course you were looking for an escape, who the Hell wouldn't want to escape from that if they had an ounce of sanity left and everyone denied and discounted your reality? And she INTENDED this to happen to you, so that she could discredit your human worth even more and fuck over even the last scraps of confidence you had in your remaining perceptions of reality. I laugh to remember how I was told that I "had a problem with authority figures" -ha ha - you bet I had a problem with them, as I will always have a problem with any figure which tries to drive me out of my mind, warp my perception of reality, exploit my good will, relentlessly lie about me, and contrive every filthy little trick they can to drive me ever deeper into despair. I wanted to kill myself at 11 years old. Later after being discredited and labelled as the sick one, I tried to drown out the nightmare with drugs which is another story for another time, but this is what they drive our young desperate selves, knowing we will not be believed nor supported. It's very hard to live in this dark night of the soul as the target of Narcs without wanting to blot out our consciousness when the Pain fills and swamps our being like a daily tsunami which it generally does for as long as they are present as totally noxious diseases in our lives. It wasn't a flaw or weakness in us; Narcs would have made anyone else in our undefended and naive position just as desperate and desperately grasping for some sort of raft to support soul survival or to end the whole horror story. I think you are a super-survivor and your connection to reality is astounding, because you don't buy in to the outright mindfucking lie that you are supposed to take responsibility for the painful feelings that the Malignant NM deliberately programmed in you from your most vulnerable infant years. (Weird meat eating? Consistent with them treating us like pieces of meat). I'm fully in my outrage mode today as I reflect on what this Hag did to you Anon, yet I am in awe of you too as someone who preserved your sanity beneath all those layers of endless crap under which the Hag relentlessly tried to bury your Self, hoping it would suffocate slowly and painfully as it died.
ReplyDeleteThe truly great irony of our lives is that we grow up with hatred and yet preserve the capacity to love, unsupported and assisted. We were dwellers in the Country of the Soul from a very young age, although we did not know it.
Anna, you nailed it all the way. Starting somewhere around age 9, I was so suicidal that it was scary. I was seeing Ts outpatient by that age, but was so afraid to talk to them that it was useless. Whenever I'd try to touch on the fact that things were bad at home, I'd be met with something like, "Of course your mother loves you and only wants the best for you." Thanks T, that was very helpful! There were so many nights that I actually prayed for death. I thought if there really was a God, He would allow me to pass peacefully in my sleep because I was doing nothing but suffering while I was awake. Upon waking up each morning, I would be overcome with anger, sometimes downright rage, that I was still alive to endure one more day of this torture that everyone else called life. I was 13 or 14 when I was first hospitalized for being suicidal, and after discharge was the point where I turned to alcohol and drugs.
DeleteI believe you are correct when you said that this was her intention - she LOVED all of this! My growing list of diagnoses excited her to no end; she'd call anyone who'd listen to share my latest behavioral problems, trips to the T, and especially my hospitalizations. People would respond with pity, giving her so much credit for being strong enough to deal with such a challenging daughter.
I'd love to share what happened the first time I was hospitalized while I can actually remember it because (most of the time this memory is blocked to a point where I don't even know how this happened)... I can't tell you exactly what evilb was doing that day, but I can tell you that it amounted to nothing less then emotional torture, and then it happened - I exploded for the first time in my life. I destroyed everything in my room, grabbed a knife, slashed everything within sight, then turned the knife on myself. Evilb quickly called a friend over, and when she arrived, I could hear them talking. The friend was advising evilb to go in there (my room) and make sure everything was okay. "I'm not going in there! She's crazy!!!" evilb responded. The friend came to check on me, saw me standing there holding a knife with blood everywhere, and shouted, "Call an ambulance!" I went from the ER directly to the psych ward...It would be an understatement to say that evilb worked this situation for all it was worth.
Even as an adult, she is quick to pull the psych history card whenever my reality differs from hers. She has shared this with the whole freaking neighborhood where I live now, and what can I say? It's true. I was hospitalized and do have a list of of diagnoses, all Axis I thankfully, but still....
It is ironic how we grew up with such hatred, yet preserve the capacity to love. ACoNs are some of the most kind, compassionate, empathetic people I know. I feel privileged to be a part of this group, damaged in so many ways, yet grateful to have a heart of gold which remains in tact - that's one thing the bitch could never take from me.
ANON
"what can I say? It's true. I was hospitalised and do have a list of diagnoses..."
DeleteAnon, this is what I believe: when great survivors like you find the courage to take a first stand and protest against their outrageous inhumane treatment, they must be silenced with diagnoses to stop the spark of their truth from starting a conflagration which would incinerate the Golden Family Myth. Psychology and Psychiatry are not tools of human freedom - that is just their public relations image-making. They are servants of Family ideology first and foremost because their function is preservation of the conservative social status quo. For survivors like you, (and me) seeking help from them is equivalent to a mouse seeking help from a hungry rapacious cat. They are so committed to the preservation of the Good Family ideology that people like you - whom deep down they actually know have been terribly served - must be shamed into silence to stop challenges to the overall system. So what is the best way to discredit inconvenient witnesses? By labelling them mad. This labelling has a secondary gain for them: by spreading the lies about you your NM is trying to divert your attention and energy into fighting a rearguard action opposing the slander she has spread so that it takes your potential healing energy away from self-protection, self-repossession, self-healing, self assertion and above all, self acceptance.
I want to comment on this "being damaged" thing with my view of it: damage exists and continues only to the extent that we remain distanced from/unaware of our reality. Damage is "the mote in the eye" - the inability to see the truth of our experience, while still infected by the programming of the NM cult. A form of blindness which cannot co-exist with the healed self. IMO 80% of healing is seeing and believing in things as they really were and as they are. The other 20% relates to what you do with the truth once you can see it.
If you have the strength simply to survive the years of abuse that these monsters inflict, then you are not damaged so much as gifted. The damage label is very effective (sadly) is silencing expressions of rage, and without the expression of rage (the starter motor of healing) it's like swimming in quicksand, always in danger of being sucked under by the underlying force of the submerged silent force of the forbidden rage. The energy it takes to keep the rage from outer expression steals the energy you need to fuel your healing.
I say these things as expressions of my own experience - and the conclusions I have come to. Accept whatever helps and reject what doesn't. I'm still learning too.
"I laugh to remember how I was told that I 'had a problem with authority figures'"
DeleteFunny, that's the same thing I was told by a psychiatrist I saw once when trying to deal with a bullying boss. He could refer me to therapy for problems with authority, he said. Yeah, right; I don't have a problem with authority, I have a problem with assholes.
Exactly! And he tried to manipulate you into discounting your own perceptions for his gain. Another asshole. (Somewhere in the world there must be a super-factory of asshole machines which function just like sausage making machines! Out they come, cloned replicas by the zillions ;)
DeleteSpeaking of "authority figures." I had a n "Christian friend" tell me I was a rebel only because she couldn't control me the way she wanted to. She thought she had "spiritual authority" over me. The spiritual authority card(from the top on down, to the congregate) is huge in churches and everybody acts like this is the way it's suppose to be. But in reality it is all about controlling others for their own agenda. The narcs have taken over the "church." I will never step foot in another church again.
Delete"(Somewhere in the world there must be a super-factory of asshole machines which function just like sausage making machines! Out they come, cloned replicas by the zillions;)"
DeleteExactly.........most people are assh****.
The church is full of them, because it suits their purposes par excellence. They crap all over you? You must forgive them or you are the bad one, the poor Christian; and evil likes nothing more than wearing the disguise of sanctimonious good. All Malignant Narcs are supreme hypocrites, though the supreme being whom they really worship is their own pathetic corrupt selves. Evil is always attracted to "the good", like iron filings to a magnet. It's their favourite hiding place.
DeleteI forgot to add that "new age" is full of them too, it soooo suits their self-serving agendas. They crap all over you, then discount your protest with "You chose that, because you choose your reality". (A 'new' version of the old abuser copout aka "you made me do it" (therefore you deserved it, you asked for it, you are responsible for my abuse of you).
DeleteThere is another malignant reason, I think, that these malignants flock to "spiritual" places: they know that the wounded are likely to gravitate there in the search for healing, and know for that reason it will be a PERFECT feeding ground for them. And tragically, they are right. They feed like sharks on a ready and waiting school of fish, and the blood left in the water isn't theirs. I hope there is a special place in hell for these hypocrites.
Anna, the thing is that if you speak out the truth in "church," you are deemed as the trouble maker and the one with the problem. I've been ridiculed and put down by narcs in front of others just to make me look bad, and so much more. Funny thing is that I started to realize one day that "church" wasn't any different than dealing with my narc foo. I wasted so much of my life in a place they call "church" and had believed that these people were for real. Most of them are fakes.
DeletePsychob would go on these diets periodically which involved boiled hot dogs and "catabolic vegetables." The result in an enclosed area (like a vehicle) was nearly deadly and unmistakable in public as well. She came fully equipped with her very own Biological/Chemical Weapons of Mass Disruption.
ReplyDeleteOne Sun. we were in church and she was all decked out in her fur coat, matching pill-box hat, matching leather gloves, removed of course to better illuminate her wedding and engagement rocks. After she let loose with one of her SBDs (silent-but-deadly farts) everyone started shifting around, kind of glancing around, grimacing etc. and Psychob sat there as if above the stench. After the odor wafted across the aisle, she very obviously and directly turned around and gave a woman in the pew behind her the arched eyebrow proverbial stink-eye. That poor woman started blushing and then got up and left the service.
I always referred to these "eruptions" as her "Signature Scent." Never within her hearing, of course ;)
TW
A signature scent from the Psychobitch line: A classic fragrance for those special times you wish to repel humanity.
DeleteYou go Anna! I'm lovin' your outrage mode! I can relate so much to what both ANON and you have written.
ReplyDeleteANON I do remember us once discussing our evil ass MN mother's meat eating habits. It's somewhere in the comments on another post and I swear you could have been a guest at our dinner table.
"she'd gnaw away at gristle, tendons, bone fragments and all, then there she'd sit in front of that plate of carcass residue looking oh so satisfied with a greasy semi-smile plastered across her face."
Such a desciptive passage. OMG. They are hungry animals. And these MN wolves are always "feeding" one way or another.
As Anna said, "(Weird meat eating? Consistent with them treating us like pieces of meat)." So true. We are nothing but prey, a kill, fresh meat to them.
In another blog post people were discussing "teenage rebellion." Well, my teenage rebellion was trying to forget and escaping from the reality of my home life. ANON nailed it with this:
"Evilb walks around sober and drug-free, going to church, destroying the lives of others, and she has no criminal or psych history. I, on the other hand, have been hospitalized twice for being suicidal as a teen, have been pegged with depression, anxiety, and PTSD. I experimented with all kinds of drugs when I was young and looking for an escape, and damn near turned myself into an alcoholic as an adult just trying to cope with life...Anyone see the irony in this."
Ain't that the kicker?! We get labelled the sick one. I too have been through hell and back trying to cope with the effects of their abuse and the Ns got nothing but smug satisfaction from my struggles.
"And she INTENDED this to happen to you, so that she could discredit your human worth even more and fuck over even the last scraps of confidence you had in your remaining perceptions of reality."
That's spot on, Anna. They want us to succumb. Everything they do is with the intent to destroy us. Fuck them! They failed! We are here, we're speaking our truth and we're not going anywhere!
We really need to come up with a slogan.
Oh Tundra Woman how refreshing you are, your hilarious anecdote made me burst into loud laughter that rocked my whole body and threatened to scare all my wrinkles away! It so clearly illustrates the classic fact that whenever these Narcs are in the wrong they become MORE insulting and MORE manipulative. Anything that might compromise their entitlement to special treatment is projected onto someone else so that their chosen victim can be blamed and shamed by them. Classic!
ReplyDeleteThank you all for your welcomes. I know I'll be rambly.Sorry. I'll blame it on chemo-brain but to tell the truth I feel concurrently both so excited to have people I can talk to who will understand and terrified that by telling the truth I will be breaking he law or something.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, heres my story. I am female and 58 years old. Between my husband, who I finally married last August after a 19 year engagement, and myself we have 5 children and 5 grandchildren.
My youngest son, LJ, 19, has Aspergers[as do I] plus a whole bucketful of co-morbidities.The worst of them is that his brain signals to the nerves in his body that they are under attack. At his worst he was passing out from the pain sometimes hundreds of times a day.
in a 7 year period we went from 2 years to retirement to a net worth of negative $300,000 because we went all over the world trying to find help for my son. Right now we are living in a travel trailer in the mountains of Colorado at a nudist resort[clothes HURT]
Both because of my sons illness and all the SE's from chemo, I work from home making jewelry, being an Avon lady, and doing the bookwork for my husbands business.
I guess the first thing I want to share is that I have never had to do jury duty. Not once. I have been notified that I need to show up many times but have alwaays been excused after I tell the attorneys that I could NEVER judge anyone and convict him of being guilty because emotionally I ALWAYS assume that the person on trial is innocent and was set up by the true criminals. I guess I don't need to explain to you all why I feel that way.
My childhood is difficult to explain. You see, other than my older sister and myself, my entire FOO are malignant narcissists. My father was horribly violent physically and emotionally. He did not beat only me but my Nsiblings and Nmother as well, which I guess is kindof different.
I have learned that in an extraordinarily dysfunctional, violent family a scapegoat is chosen. Possibly because of my creative wiring I was the chosen one. My mother and two of my siblings would tell my dad that i had done things that they actually had. I received many beatings for their actions but eventually that was not enough and they began just making stuff up to see me get beaten.
as I grew older they continued to treat me like crap and tell each other lies about me that they sometimes did not tell my dad about.
one time though, my father asked me if some of the things he "disciplined" me for were actually things others had done and blamed me for. I told him no. telling the truth was always against the rules.
Funny, but my understanding is that my mom and siblings needed to scapegoat me and blame everything on me because it made their lives less painful. I think I could understand and accept that except that their abuse grew worse every day and i think that they did some things that they might not have if I were not the scapegoat who was blamed for everything. I know my dad was abusive but they were the ones who seeemed to take such joy in hurting me.
When I was 15 my brother thought i was drunk[long story i can tell another time] and he sexually assaulted me, no penetration.
almost a year later, May 6 1972, was a Saturday and my younger sister had friends spend the night. one of them was 13 years old. She was such a sweet little girl. My brother, who was about 21 years, 5 months and 2 weeks old raped her.in the main floor bathroom. I heard and tried so hard to get up and save her but it was like i was paralyzed.
finally, after it was over i cleaned the bathroom. it was covered in blood. I heard Karen crying and asked her if she wanted to talk and she said no, that she just missed her mom and dad.
about a month passed. My sister told me that Karen was pregnant. That the family was going to press rape charges against my brother, kevin. My dad paid the family off with a large ammount of money. i don't know how much but he told me that if my mom ever found out she would shoot him.
there were only a few days of school before summer break when all of this happened. Nmother and Nsister approached me and said that they had a plan. Since Karens family had "stolen" so much of our money we were to get revenge. I was told that in the last few days of school we were to spread rumors that karen was a slut. I refused. My Mmom and Nsis became enraged. my sister screamed "I told you so. Vicky is always like this. She only cares a bout that slut. she doesn't care about keeping kevin from going to prison."
DeleteI explained that the little girl had already been so hurt and there was no way that i would be a part of making it worse. ALSO that to do this could only hurt my brother, that the parents had accepted being paid off and might change their mind if we spread such horrible things.
That was the day that I was branded[along with everything else] the family traitor. When my brother visited from college a couple weeks later after he talked to them he called me all sorts of names. He said I had always been this way and to never speak to him again. In over 40 years I am sure that we have not had a combined total of even one hour of conversation between us.
I was so terrified of my brother and ashamed that i had not saved karen. I ran away from home, even deliberately found a way to get INTO a reform school so that I could be away from them, especially my brother.
As soon as I was old enough I escaped[or thought i did] through marraige. Larry was a narcissist but I could not see many of his flaws becaise he was so much less horrible than my family had been.
I really believed that they would stop hurting me once I was married, but that was not the case. As a matter of fact when I visited my parents home[and my husband did not] both my Nfather and Nsister would physically beat me.[Please don't ask why I kept going back]
We moved to Montana to get away from them. They kept sending hateful letters telling me I had to divorce Larry because he was such a bad person. During the same period of time, I later found out, they were sending messages through Larrys dad who lived in montna too that Larry should divorce me because I was no good. They told my in-laws horrible lies about me. Mostly they told them that I was a liar and not to listen to anything I said about them.
What an extraordinary soul you must have to have endured and been surrounded by so much evil without shutting down your heart.
ReplyDeletePlease forgive me if I have formed the wrong impression, though as you described the nature and events of this monstrous family in which you were trapped, I felt that you were somehow taking into yourself guilt that was not yours to take, that you are blaming yourself for not being able to alleviate at least some of their evil, that they got into your head with their terrible scapegoating brainwashing of "it's all your fault", and it wasn't your fault, none of it was, ever, you couldn't have stopped them or limited their evil, you were a powerless traumatised child who survived without nurture or love in a pit of corruption with family members who were abominations, who brought you only pain, misery, heartbreak and terrified hopelessness. (Are you safely out of their reach now? Do you have safety in your life now?)
I think that they all knew what was really happening, it suited their purposes to trap you in confusion about this, to further confuse you and invalidate your perceptions of their repugnant scheming. You were disempowered by them and made to feel responsible so that you wouldn't tell the family secrets or seek protection for yourself. Deep in your soul you have protected the truth of your experience which can now be accepted, validated and understood here.
Well, in a sense you are "breaking the law" of all these families in that one of the main "Laws"/Rules is "Thou shalt not talk about what happens in this FOO." In your words, "Telling the truth was against the rules." One of the most fundamental aspects IMO of coming to terms with a childhood/adulthood with MNParents/FOOs is ya gotta start talking about what happened and tell your truths. And FWIW, you don't sound "rambly" to me at all. But typically, it's hard to feel safe or comfortable when you first start really thinking and talking about all these events-there's so many, eh?!
ReplyDeleteYour parents failed in spectacular fashion, both by omission (minimally, failure to protect) and commission (physical/emotional/psychological/verbal abuse.) I'm assuming both are deceased-is that correct?
What I'm hearing you say is you could have understood/accepted your role as a Scapegoat if it were for a "Higher Purpose" in that it made other family member's lives "less painful." Little One, you were a CHILD. It *never* was your responsibility then-or now, for that matter-to bear the pain of any other including (and I'd say especially) any other FOO members. You're a human being, not a Superfund Cleanup Site conveniently located for anyone to dump their toxic crap. Finding Meaning in what happened to us is important also in making sense of a world which is so terribly frightening and distorted secondary to having parents-that-weren't.
I'm sorry both you and your son are facing major medical issues. Many of us have had our "Retirements" blown away by health care problems and related costs. I'm hoping both of you will find some resolution for your illnesses, or at least a bit of respite from the demands of them.
Promise, no one's gonna show up on your door step and take you away in cuffs for speaking up! ;)
TW
a few words about my daughter. I have loved her since I was 7 years old. My dad had a degree in psychology and was constantly telling us that because of his training he was an excellent fatheI had different plans for how I was going to raise my little someday girl.I would spend hours writing in notebooks planning it. I already loved my daughter intensely [ one fallacy that research has finally disproved is that Aspies do not feel love or empathy or that they do it is on a much smaller scale. We feel so deeply it physically hurts. We ussually cannot bear seeing others in pain but don't know the appropriate way to present without first studying extensively] and thought i was a reel because I was going to tell my baby girl every day how blessed i was to have her in my life and that she was the smartest, sweetest and prettiest little girl in the world. What a shock when I read some of my dads psych books and saw that my ideas were not original at all]
Deletewhen Jen was born she really WAS the prettiest sweetest, smartest person I had ever met. [runner up in beauty contest. bronze medal for her age group in the "Olympics of the Mind" and she [like me] was compulsed to alleive the suffering of anyone in pain. Until larry died she told me and everyone else that she had the best mom in the world and that all of her friends were envious of our relationship.She was so awesome, as are my other two though they are all three so different in their personalities and talents.
The day after my sisters phone call when I came home from work something terrible had happened. I won't go into the details because i am close to a meltdown thinking about it but she had attempted to murder my husband, her daddy.
she had never been violent in any way, ever. I asked her why and she told me that she knew Aunt Kim was a bitch but that she was also a nurse and wouldn't lie about something like that. She told me that she loved me so much and that i was a good person but that i was kindof weird in the way I trusted everyone and thought everyone was so good. She also mentioned that she wasn't calling me stupid but that I wasn't very smart, was gullible, and that Aunt Kim had a masters. I was floored.
when Larry fake died from his fake leukemia two weeks later, along with all of the bruises on his body from the illness he still had the huge black eye my daughter had given him.
though they had talked and she had told Larry that for some crazy reason she had believed her aunt that day and he told her he did not blame my daughter, he still died wondering how his baby girl could possibly have done what she did if she loved him.
I know my daughter
never recovered from the guilt she felt. Not at all.
on the day that Larry died my sister flew in to "help".I was so timid back then that I didn't tell her not to come. My son and daughter were both [rightfully] so angry with me for allowing it. They kept reminding me of the phone call. i have no idea why i could not put my foot down and tell her no.
The first thing she said when she walked through the door was "I never liked your father but I'm here because I love you kids." I don't know how many times I heard her say that to my kids.
she stayed for a week. I never once let her see me cry.
80% of Aspies don't drive. I don't drive. My sister kept driving around in Larrys little fierro.After a couple of days it started making this terrible grinding sound when she drove it. I told her I know nothing about cars but that the next door neighbor said she was driving it in the wrong gear and that if she didn't change gears that it would strip the gears.
she screamed that she knew what she was doing. I feel nauseous at how weak I was. I swear I was strong in other areas.
Wow. There are some things i was going to say that you that i didn't that you two picked up on, especially the guilt i feel for the harm they caused others.
ReplyDeleteMy mother is still living. My father died 4 years ago, and believe it or not that is when things got so much worse.
I was married to Larry for 18 years. My family never stopped. When he was diagnosed with a form of leukemia [by this time we were living in New Jersey] I thought my family would give some support. i had ALWAYS been there for anything they needed. Well, in the three and a half years until his death i had only one phone call giving support. That was from my good sister [the older one] she called and said she had heard promising results with the testing of golden seal root.
My Nsister is a nurse and she was specialized in adolescence psychology. When the oncologist told me that Larry wouldn't be arround for more than a few more months I left a message on her answering machine [this was nearly 20nyears ago] telling her what the doctor had said and asking if she had any advice on how to and when to tell my kids [they were 14 and 17 years old at the time. i was 6 months pregnant with my 19 year old son I have mentioned previously]
She called me back. I was happily surprised the first two seconds or so and thought she could give me some good advice and maybe even some comfort. That is not what happened. She said that she had PROOF that Larry was faking leukemia. I told her she was wrong, gave her some of the blood numbers. She kept screaming. My 14 year old was standing next to me telling me to hang up but i didn't. I don't think it is my upbringing as much as my Aspergers but we are known as 'rules kids'. Because of that we will not break any rules we have set up. one of those rules was to never hang up on anyone. She finally screamed "SO< ARE YOU GOING TO LEAVE HIM NOW?" and hung up on me.
I had never used that word before but after the phone call I screamed "That fucking lying cunt."
My daughter came down to see what was going on and i told her. She didn't say a word, just went back upstairs.
The guilt is oozing from your previous post, Annonymous. And for whatever it's worth, I agree with the two posters above me - this guilt does not belong to you. You were a child, abused and traumatized when you should have been loved and protected. There was absolutely nothing you could have done to stop these evil people from hurting anyone.
ReplyDeleteWhat your sister did to you in your time of need is really horrible - she kicked you when you were down. Is it possible to come up with new rules for situations like these? Like when someone is being downright abusive to you on the phone that it's okay to hang up on them? And for the record, after what your sister did to you, she deserved to be called a "fucking lying cunt" and a lot worse. I hope screaming that out helped you feel a little better!
As an aside, you just cleared up a big mystery for me. My daughter is an Aspie, and she has been an absolute pleasure to raise. From a very young age, all I would have to do is tell her something one time, and that was it - she would listen. I'm not complaining because this is every parent's dream, but I always found it to be interesting because kids normally have to hear the same thing over and over before it finally sinks in. This explains it - she's rigid with her thinking and follows the rules no matter what. I will have to work with her some more because sometimes situations arise where there is no black and white rule to follow; sometimes the answer is gray.
I really hate what your family has done to you, and can only hope that you are in a safe place now so that you have the time and space you need to heal.
ANON
It feels so good to be able to talk about it. I'll tell more of evverything later. I'm just so happy to be here.
ReplyDeleteI HAVE learned to hang up and not always be sweet when someone is cruel to me. Also, i keep mentioning my sister. I have to make it clear that my dad was horribly abusive and that if he were not the way he was that the rest of my family would not be how they are.
my father and i got along great the last few years of his life which is really weird because I used to be his least favorite as well. My family were so angry when my dad started being nice to me. I think it surprized me more than it did them. they constantly told me that I was an idiot if I believe my dad loved me, that he was only being nice because no one else was nice to him. I know that is probably true. It has been much easier to forgive him though because he asked for my forgiveness, started treating me a whole lot better. plus, though they were abusive as well and even set up many of his attacks on me i was encouraged to hate my father and everything they did i was told was me 'remembering different, lying or being crazy. I know i am not the most together person but not for any of the reasons or ways that they say.
Before my sons illness became acute I used to do day-care for uniquely wired children. The kids were all different but I had the nick-name of "The Miracle Worker." People would ask me how I did it. I just knew my own. We had fun. the only problem the parents had with me is that their kids never wanted to go home.
As an Aspie I never had rages when I had meltdowns. I cried and had/have anxiety attacks. Sometimes, and this is not a medical term, I "fold into myself." does your daughter? When we do this it is not to be rude or ignore people. it is to survive all the so often negative stimulation. We cannot handle it and "fold" into a less threatening place. I often wonder if some of the lower functioning autistics are average or above average in IQ but folded into themselves permanently. I don't know.By the way, how old is your daughter? You seem to be an awesome Mom and what you have experienced has most likely made you a more sensitive parent.
As far as being in a safe place, there is still so much to explain but yes, I am very blessed. My youngest is doing better. My husband, who I married in August but have been with since my youngest was a baby is the most GOOD, most decent man I have ever known. He was also the scapegoat in his family but his experiences were not nearly as bad as mine. He tells me every day that he is mezmeried by my beauty and he is serious.
I was NEVER beautiful. Now I am pretty old with a scarred chest, a few sticks of strawlike hair, skin more wrinkled every day from the meds, with lots of bloating, bad gas and constant fatigue. He believes I am beautiful though and he says he is more in love with me than ever. I believe him. for both of us, even after all these years, we are both a little incredulous that someone we love loves us back. It's pretty cool. All but one of my kids thinks I'm awesome as do my grandkids, and yes, i live in a travel trailer but it's in the most beautiful place filled with wildlife in the mountains of Colorado and there is a huge clubhouse where I can hang with family, friends or just myself.
BTW, my name is Vicky.
I feel as though I have been damming up a river of emotion, of my very life for so many decades. I totallly understand if anyone does not feel like reading all that I have to say but I am so thankful for the chance to finally let it all out.
DeleteShortly before Larry died he requested 3 promises from me. One is very personal. He also asked me to promise to be happy again, which I thought was unfair of him but probably the best thing for him to say because I am anal about keeping my word. I had been planning to move into my best friends extra house in Ohio after he passed but he asked me to move to Colorado so that I would get support from my family. He hd it in his head that they would be there for me and that the reason they had been so cruel over the years[forget my childhood] was because they hated him.
So, after my daughter graduated from high school we moved to Colorado. Kim had been diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer. the doctors felt her only chance was an autologous bone marrow transplant. her insurance company turned it down because it was experimental[very expensive] I jumped into fund raisers and contributed much more of my own money than I could afford. During the fund raising the insurance company relented. I continued with the fund raising because I knew money would be tight.There was a woman who gave my parents over half the money originally told was needed. My parents decided to give Kim the money, keep the other half, and not tell the woman that the insurance money had agreed to pay all of my sisters medical expenses.
Before I continue, when I moved to Colorado all of my family was , for the first time EVER was being very nice to me. It was like they were different people.
when Kim was in the hospital I went to see her every day. I would drop my baby at the sitters, walk a mile to the bus stop[ i do not drive] and take a bus to work. After work I took a bus to the bus stop nearest my home, ran to the sitters, picked up my baby, went back to the busstop and took 3 buses to get to the hospital. I could only stay 30 to 40 minutes because I had to get back home before the buses stopped running. I did this every day for weeks. [there is a reason I am telling you this. when I was years later diagnosed with a particularly aggressive form of breast cancer her response was, well, one of the things that helped me finally see that I should not want to be accepted by these people. yes, i am a slow learner]
On the upside, were it not for my sister I would never have met Bobby. she told me not to visit her the next evening because she felt that the rest of my family was not giving her enough attention and that my constant support made her angry with the rest of my family. she went so far as to tell me that if I showed up she would refuse to see me. so, the next day I went to s Jaycee meeting with a woman who kept inviting me to go with her. I was excited because the group did all sorts of charitable and community work. That is how I met my husband.[the one i only recently wed, lol]
so, things went pretty good for quite a long while. My sister and dad hated each other passionately except when they were together talking about how they hated someone else. I really enjoyed Kims husband and step kids[they finally escaped] and liked my brothers wife. My good sister and her family were all awesome [my niece was a pioneer of the weighted hula hoop craze and toured all over the world dancing with fire lit hula hoops]Of course they were all still nasty but mostly not to me.
Then my dad got sick. Everything changed as my sister moved into the role of head of the family.
I am too upset to write more tonight. i will be back tommorrow.
Anonymous, I was wondering how things are for you right now? Are you still living in a travel trailer in the mountains of Colorado at a nudist resort? That can't be easy.
DeleteThe memories are all playing out in my mind as I write this. I can see, feel, hear,even smelled all that took place in that period. During a short period of time we were told that there was not much more that could be done for my dad. My sisters husband and his kids escaped. My son became very ill. We had no idea at the time why he was in such horrendous agony all of the time [he also developed profound tourettes at the time and my daughter and her husband-who she loved with a passion she never had before- split up.
ReplyDeleteSince all the memories are crashing in at once [not uncommon in those on the spectrum] I might have the order a tiny bit off. I remember I called my family andd asked if they would be there to support lJ. My dads doctors said they would give dialysis a try. My family refused to help at all. I could not leave my son alone for even one second. He kept saying,"Mommy, if you love me please help me die."
A couple of days after my daughter and her husband split up I spoke to Kim. She said that she was passing on the message that my daughter wanted nothing to do with me or Bobby, her little brother, because we were too hovering and it drove her crazy. I was devastated. I had always thought my daughter and i had a grerat relationship. Kim said that Jennifer had sent the message through her because she couldn't handle seeing us cry. She said that she would let us know when Jenn wanted to see us again. AND I BELIEVED HER.
I do tend towards naivete and extreme gullibility but there was more to it than that. though we had hundreds of pages of documentation of lessions in the thalamus of my sons brain my sister had convinced my daughter that my son was faking his illness.[which would make her more knowledgable than the neurologists, definitely more informed than god, right?" so, even before my sister told me that my daughter had been making many snippy and sarcastic comments.
I just kept waiting for Jen to call. I called my sister and every time she said "Jennifer is not ready to see you yet."
two weeks after that it was my dads birthday and Bobby said that no matter what Kim said that we were going to talk to jen.
We went in the house. Jen was half laying on the loveseat. I walked up to her and said "honey, I love you so much," she bolted from the loveseat and ran upstairs crying hysterically. Bobby and I started running after her and my sister blocked us on the stairs and said "Not you. i'll go up. she doesn't want you."
i believed her. It was several years later that my mom[who was in on everything] slipped that Jennifer had been devaststed because i was not there for her. Kim had fooled me. I don't know how she does it.
Jen eventually called me and we stsrted doing things together but of course it was different. I was trying so hard not to hover, not to cry[kim had told me that was one of the many problems my daughter had with me]
It was a while after that the meeeting for my dad was planned at the hospital with social workers, clergy, hospice, nurses and the my dads primary doc. It was the meeting on what we could do to make my dads last few days possible. At the hospital the doctor told me. "He has 3 days, tops. I don't know why he's even alive. He must be waiting to go home to die."
I walked into the hospital room. Someone had placed chairs surrounding his bed. They were all empty. i sat at the bottom of the bed and started rubbing my dads feet. Everyone else was standing pressed against the wall except for my mom and brother who were at the back of the room where my dad could not see them.
Hi Lissette. We are still living at Mountain Air Ranch [the second oldest nudist resort in the country, 78 years] Most who come up in the winter [thats only a few people] are being supportive. it's peaceful and beautiful here. Tons of wildlife. We sauna and hottub at the clubhouse every day and ussually people show up for a potluck or a dance on the week-ends. I was worried we'd get cold but we are plenty warm.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if I told you but we run the ice cream shop [th ONLY ice cream parlor in a nudist resort in the country, and our stuff is incredible, much of it homemade] and we have been given permission to expand it to milk, eggs, homemade jewelry and Avon and other sundries.
also, we go to work in Lakewood at bobby's automotive repair shop when LJ and I are feeling well enough. I think it's a good thing that we used up all our money to try to find a cure for LJ because we never would have otherwise. I was pretty freaked [borderline suicidal] when my sister [and i didn't even know it was my sister initially] convinced people at a NUDIST resort where everyone could see my scarred chest, few remaining strands of hair, etc. that I was faking cancer.[BtW she convinced my daughter that her daddy was faking leukemia a couple of weeks before he did with horrendous ramifications]
So many people are angry that anyone believed that so I am feeling pretty darn good. We have also found a unitarian church[super liberal and accepting] where my son is able to get a little socialization now that his ice pick type neurological pains are no longer keeping him isolated.
so, I'm doing pretty darn good. thanks for asking. If you ever want to visit here I think you would love it and we would love to have you here.
I hope your life is going well too.
Vicky
Thanks, Vicky. You've got a lot going on! It's good to hear you are keeping busy and are surrounded by friends and family.
DeleteI just wanted to let you know that I'd like to keep this blog post on topic, so I won't be publishing your last comment. But I'll have a new post up soon and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the next post!
Love this post, Lisette!
ReplyDeleteExperienced this phenomenon with a roommate in college. Even though I was the lease holder and she
was sub-leasing, when her behavior became to bizarre and sometimes violent, I decided to leave since she wouldn't. It was a sweet house, especially for a college student, but NO house is worth living with a skinsuit.
BUT, experienced something far worse than this of a similar flavor and wondering if anyone else experienced such a thing. In my mid-20's, I was dating someone who I truly wanted to marry. We ended up buying a new home together, getting engaged around Christmas time, doing some world traveling etc. (We worked in an industry that afforded this lifestyle). Well, just before I turend 30, he broke up and demanded I move out of our home. He didn't want the engagement ring back and wouldn't tell me why he was calling off the wedding or why he was forcing me to move out. I attempted to get him to move out of our house, but he became adamant and I was too emotionally exhausted and blind-sided to fight it. I scrambled to find a place and ended up moving in with a family member (temporarily) until I could find a more long-term option near my place of employment. So.... 6 weeks or so passed and a co-worker that I kind of new approached me and wanted to talk privately. She let me know that my 'ex' was dating a woman named Susan who her husband worked with.... then she told me that my ex had been dating Susan for the last year he and I were together and even AFTER we got engaged. Susan was taking my ex to parties and introducing him as her soon-to-be fiance when he was out of earshot. (Remember, my ex and I had broken up 6 weeks prior...) I was double-blind sided by that news and asked the coworker to find out more since my ex wouldn't tell me word one about anything. The coworker found out more and said the backstory was that about a year before, my ex had gone to some rock climbing functions without me since there was a period of time when I was working 60 hours a week. Susan was there looking for her latest kill. It seems to set her sights on him and approached some people to find out all about him. One of those people warned Susan off saying that he was firmly engaged and in love. Apparently she told the person that would only make her more determined to get him. Then, it turns out she asked people about me and what type of person I was and attempted to mirror my hobbies and manner of dress. The reason my ex broke up was so Susan could move right on in to our house and assume MY prior life with him. Well, that was 11 years ago, and things worked out for the best for me. My ex is married to Susan and they have 2 kids. Another acquaintance saw him a year ago at work reunion and Susan was there, hanging on his arm, firmly attached to him. My acquaintance said he looked miserable, drained of all life, and SCARED of Susan-- and that good old Susan had long ago stopped hiding her true self. (She had been wearing a persona prior to them getting married in order to hook him in).
Even though this involves exes and even though I have never met Susan, it somehow wreaks of elements
of narcissistic skinsuit behavior. (And yes, her real name is Susan. She is a software consultant in the Pacific Northwest. Woe to any clients who actually have to host her onsite. Instead of 'hosting' a consultant, they are actually hosting someone more akin to a malignant and poisonous leach.)
Anonymous, I agree! No house is worth living with a Skinsuit no matter how sweet it is. I would say Susan is definitely a skin suiter. She is clearly a predator and she chose to hone in on a man who was "firmly engaged and in love." That tells me she is covetous and greedy. She doesn't go out and create her own happiness, she hunts it down in others and then steals it. I believe these skinsuiters get a bigger thrill from a relationship gained through destruction and thievery. Now it sounds like she's destroying him and there will soon be nothing left of him. Yeah, good old Susan's mask probably smashed to the ground as soon as she had him hooked and under her control. It's kind of sad that this happened to someone you once loved, but I'm glad you came out of the experience with your skin in one piece.
ReplyDeleteHi Lisette, Wonderful article and my NMIL to a tee.
ReplyDeleteWhen I met her, she wanted me to buy her the hair product I used, apparently if she puts it in her hair, her hair will look like mine and she can mimic what is attractive to her own son.
Over the years, I had this creepy feeling that she wanted my life, she wanted to be the one married to her son and hated me for being the one that was.
Now we are doing a great appliance competition, everytime I get an appliance, presently it is my large washing machine that was bought due to our three young kids barfing on sheets when ill and potty training....well MIL needs one too now, and she lives alone. If I have it, she must too.
It is such a creepy feeling and I have figured out that she seems to want to be me, but I have never read about it before, this is the first time. Thank you for posting it.
She wants to be you and she's in competition with you. In her eyes you are the other woman who stole her husband/son. She'll never stop trying to "win" her man back so you can expect her sick game of always one upping you to never end. She'll only get worse in time.
ReplyDeleteLisette,
ReplyDeleteAmazing blog! This post in particular describes my mother in law. Ever since I began dating her oldest son (she has 2 sons, no daughters, single--divorced 4 times) she has done the meanest, most irrational things. She has really amped up since we got married! I'm treated as just a temporary situation. While wants to be rid of me, at the same time she's obsessed with me. It's so gross! She copied all of the furniture I picked out, she copied my new hair cut, I changed my hair color and then she started talking about doing that too. She directly repeats things I've said and pretends like they are her thoughts/ideas. She has directly ripped off my clothing style and she seems to think we are in a competition, too. In the meantime, while doing all these creepy things, she has done everything in her power to run me off. She has lied about me to other family members, she has raged to me and about me, she has set up situations in which she KNEW her son would have to "choose" and when he chose me he got himself on the sh*tlist as well. Soon she started calling him and hanging up, pretending like she never called or like her phone accidentally called him. When we've been out to birthday dinners she tries to get my husband to sit next to her and then she acts like they are on a date. It's gross, does she not know she can't marry her son and that he isn't sexually attracted to her?? She acts like she honestly does not know that. Husband and I have been to therapy and he is doing some major healing, finally feeling validated and heard, but it takes lots of work. She has castrated both of her sons and continues to do so with any man she comes near (hello, 4 divorces?). I don't know, I guess there's no answer. Just, thank you for writing this.
Anonymous, You're welcome and thanks for commenting. My condolences for getting stuck with a MN Monster in law - a Skinsuit MN Monster it law no less!
Delete"It's gross, does she not know she can't marry her son and that he isn't sexually attracted to her?? She acts like she honestly does not know that."
I wonder if anyone has ever approached their MN MIL with this question, or a smiliar question. I'm curious as to how the MN would answer. They are all completely deluded, so it's anyone's guess. Plus these MNs groom their sons to be mini husbands. I guess they believe it's their right since they gave birth to them. In other words, they own them. It's really sick that she's trying to be you. In her mind you ARE temporary: she see's you as the mistress/the other woman. I'm glad your husband (and you) are getting help and he is not in denial. The only "answer" seems to be no contact and that doesn't happen overnight - it takes a lot of planning, support and skill to pull off.
"... these MNs groom their sons to be mini husbands."
DeleteI too am one of two sons and no daughters. In my case, I think that instead of me MN mother always wanted a daughter. There are a number of indications to this, such as: As an adult I was the designated caretaker - determined by her to live with her until her death and "help her in her old age". As a child, I was regulary assigned "women's" housework such as cleaning; she has a traditional upbringing and distinguishes between "men's" and "women's" work quite strongly. I cannot remember young Dr. Fraud (see below) being given such tasks, though I may have missed it. Most telling of all, she would revel when I wasn't seeming very masculine. As a boy, it seems I had such features that sometimes people mistook me for a girl; or I allegedly resembled one. She was absolutely delighted about it. When I was about 18, she fawned over my "girl-like" hair. All such things put together, and it seems as though she wanted me to be a woman. In any case, it's always about being a human extension to them and not a separate person.
And who knows, I may have been "lucky": something tells me that had I really been a female, she would have abused me much more badly. Make no mistake, she has done me untold damage as it is.
Oh, and the other son is the infamous Dr. Fraud, a malignant narcissist even more dangerous than its birth-giver.
TA, thanks for your post. MN parents objectify their children in so many different ways. They do whatever the hell they want to get their needs met. If my MN mother and MN sister had their way, I would be enslaved in the Cinderella role catering to their every whim. Glad I escaped... glad you did too. I wonder what kind of caretaker Dr. Fraud will make? Like my MN mother and sister, they got stuck with each other - jokes on them.
Delete"it's always about being a human extension to them and not a separate person."
That's for damn sure. The MNs see us as anything from a tool, a punching bag, a doll, a mini me, to a spouse. They are sick in the head!
She knows what she knows: that her possession of him is essential for her to keep feeding off his energy, and you have undermined her direct access, exclusive supply. So she is obsessed with undermining you, and her fury is manifesting in the textbook ways that Lisette is so gifted in describing. I hope you and your husband can move far away before/if you have children. Her mimicry of you is designed consciously intended to try and show your husband that you're nothing special, (anything you can do she can do better). These women are evil, not unaware, not sick in the conventional sense, but evil. And her evil behaviour is fully conscious to her, it's not "a lack of insight" as the Freudians would say, not at all. She lies awake at night planning more mayhem, more lies. I speak from experience of an evil NMIL who - after driving one son to suicide, another to incapaciting mental illness, (greatly accelerated by her incestuous sexual abuse of him) and hating an unloved scapegoated daughter who got away, spends her days in her 80s lamenting "poor me.. I didn't have much luck in the children department, did I?". The evil accept no responsibility at all for the evil they consciously do, and yours never will either - though you probably know that by now. I feel for you, I know what it's like as so many of us here do. Great that you can see her so clearly and that you are here.
ReplyDeleteIMO, it seems so many of these MN "mommas" have emotionally incestuous relationshits with their "DS"-such a recurring theme. I've also noted the "Serial Divorces" as well and it appears they usually have their next Target lined up before the get rid of the current "DH." I'm aware of one AC whose "mother" was married and divorced 8 times-none of 'em were "Do-Overs" either. Another one with 5 kids by 4 different men: The only "requirement?" Lotsa $$$ for "Child Support."
ReplyDeletesigh. You're the "Competition" she wants to annihilate.
TW
"these MNs groom their sons to be mini husbands"
ReplyDeleteI've witnessed this on both sides of the family. It's just so bazare...
My MN MIL did this. The way I met her was bizarre: not long after I had met her son, and didn't know him very well at that point, we weren't "in a relationship" then, only at the beginning stages, I didn't know that he had gone home after meeting me and had told her "I've met the woman I'm going to marry". I knew nothing about him saying that at the time. A week or so later I was visiting my gilrfriend at her house one night and we were surprised by a knock on the door - it was about 9pm. She opened the door to two strangers who said they wanted to talk to me (MN MIL to be had somehow traced me to there) - best friend let them in and they barged into the living room, where I sitting and MN MIL-to-be spoke her first ever words to me, which were "You must be pretty screwed up". Then followed a tirade about how I was totally unsuitable for her brilliant son and his brilliant future (me not knowing that = me being totally screwed up). My friend had a German Shepherd dog, who broke the house rule that night of not being allowed to enter the living room. The dog, Kimo, walked in and placed himself between me and the motherhag and glared at her, as if to say "I'm on to you lady, watch your step or else.."
ReplyDeleteOnly my friend and I knew how peculiar it was for the dog to dare to enter that room, and act against years of training; but his instincts were stronger than the training that night. This MN MIL was the "engulfing" type. I read somewhere about the two forms of the NM motherhags, the engulfing and the ignoring types. My MN motherhag was the opposite, the ignoring type, she colonised her GC son psychologically, she groomed him to be a clone extension of herself and act as if he was her, though not in the husband role. Both totally ignored boundaries and were sexual weirdos, in different forms, equally poisonous and damaging. My MN motherhag sexually abused me, the scapegoat. Husband's motherhag sexually abused her golden sons, and ignored their scapegoat sister (in all of the ways a child can be ignored and minised). My motherhag didn't stalk people - she expected them to come to her and wait on her and do obeisance as if she was the Queen of England - who was the only figurehead she slavishly admired (because she identified so totally with the absolute role of entitlement and symbolic power that goes with it). Both of these motherhags had husbands who were deferent to them, subordinates, they never stood up to them at all, they were psychologically controlled by them and fearful of acting like men, (they were in a child role too) though they knew that their silence was wrong, they were cowardly, and yet they knew in the adult part of themselves that they were complicit with the forms of evil that their wifehags inflicted on others. I am quite certain of this.
i was a target of a few women who have skinsuit me, I only understand it more now and can deal with it better when i know theres and answer as to what is going on and the illness behind it. it is very frustrating my daughter has suffered do to women who have daughters, they involve their daughters or friends daughters to isolate my daughter as well. its pathetic how these women have created so much drama from no place. i feel sorry for those who have to deal with this daily because it really feels like a bumble bee thats chasing you and bites now and then. how sad to live so empty that way.
ReplyDeleteLisette, I don't think I would be labouring the point by saying that this article validates the experiences of my entire life. The hours I have spent pondering how unnatural my mother and, subsequently, sister are, just annoys me when I look back at it. The answer is that there IS no rationale. After over a decade of total NC my mother, 'the most horrible person I have ever met', that's her title, that's how I describe her, when my neighbour asked about getting help from my mother when I had a baby my answer was a worringly clear 'no, I don't have anything to do with my mother, she is the most horrible person I have ever met'. What struck me as worrying was how natural that thought is, she is quite simply, the most horrible person I have ever met. Anyway, getting back to the story, after a decade of NC my 'mother' still stalks me, rings people who she finds out I am friends with and PHONES them (after apparent extensive research to obtain numbers) to threaten them regarding what will happen to them if they don't abandon me. I am honestly not kidding. Sometimes I just stare into space with the inability to comprehend someone like that. There is 35 years of horror stories and she thinks SHE is the victim. Maybe she is, a victim of an evil claw disguised as a human. Sometimes, in a rare moment, when I sat and relax i dream about how beautiful it will be to be told that she has died and that I can, for the first time, feel the sting of the sun on my skin and taste the clarity of water without this protective shell I have grown to protect myself from the next inevitable insult she flings from a cowardly distance. If ever my beautiful daughter ever sits and thinks that the two words that she associates with my death is 'rebirthing and freedom' then I have failed as a human being. But that is what I do. Her relentless, shameless evil has become so apparent now that I have a daughter, it has thrown her behaviour into sharp relief and I have grown unutterably intolerant of the evil bitch and her presence here on earth. I am at a loss as to know how to rid her from my life, I cannot physically do more to create distance. I just have to wait for the inevitable. Thank you for your insights Lisette, seriously, thank you.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, I too am often stunned by how completely evil my MN mother and MN sister are. You call your mother "the most horrible person I have ever met" I don't even call my mother a person. I lump both her and my sister in a category known as malignant narcissists - evil monsters that roam the earth in human form. Even though I have managed to dehumanize them in my mind, I still am shocked, and in an odd way fascinated by their perverted existence in this world. I understand the feeling of how natural it is to completely disconnect with them as anything else than what they are - malignant creatures. I'm really matter of fact about it, and 22 years NC means I'm serious - the bitch is dangerous. There's no attachment for me at all to MN mother except anger toward her and her kind which is all about self-preservation.
Delete"Sometimes, in a rare moment, when I sat and relax i dream about how beautiful it will be to be told that she has died and that I can, for the first time, feel the sting of the sun on my skin and taste the clarity of water without this protective shell I have grown to protect myself from the next inevitable insult she flings from a cowardly distance."
My MNM is not a stalker but her Flying Monkey Frankendaughter is. After 22 years no contact, I don't believe MN mother's death will be that big a deal. I will likely feel indifferent. However, if MN sister dropped dead tomorrow, I would feel relief. It is terribly unsettling knowing that there is a MN out there who will never stop trying to destroy you.
"If ever my beautiful daughter ever sits and thinks that the two words that she associates with my death is 'rebirthing and freedom' then I have failed as a human being."
This is how I feel about my MN mother - she has failed as a human being. I can't think of greater testimony to that fact than my blog. I intentionally published my first post on Mother's Day.
They are evil monsters and there's nothing we can do but continue to stay away for them and await their demise as they leave behind a legacy of hate.
Hi Lisette,
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree re STILL being shocked by both their behaviour and the stories of others. It is odd that, I cant see how they could debase themselves or appear any more insane then they go and best that. If it wasn't serious it would be funny.
The last person MNM phoned was a Reverend friend of mine, she told him I was a drug addict, a prostitute and a thief who has received endless resources from her. Funny, I thought I raised myself completely after the age of 12, (not to mention did ALL the housework ALL the time, fed myself etc etc), we appear to have completely different memories of the same events. Re her comments, I am conservative to a fault, drinking coffee is the closest I get to walking on the dark side, what odd things to say to a stranger about their daughter. I didn't know what to say to the Reverend when I found out but he just laughed and said 'I deal with all types, don't worry, brush the dust from your feet and just keep walking away'. The good thing is, once someone has dealt with these fools they can pick them a mile away. The MN seems oblivious to this.
I have spent my entire life just embarrassed of this fool. Jus soooooooo embarrassed. Funny thing is, she had the most privileged upbringing you could imagine.
It IS fascinating what would motivate a person to be so relentless to a target who never responds, over a period of a decade, that is genuinely phenomenal. I have to even think back what I was doing a decade ago let alone be in a constant rage over an event back in the 1700's.
Yes, I have a Frankensister, she is meaner than 'mother' but she doesn't quite have the same flare, like 'light' ice cream, not quite right. I have always seen her as a dork and pathetic, she goes around trying to terrify people and she does a LOT of unprovoked appalling horrendous things to people, to those who have helped her the most usually. I always kind of giggled when I saw her terrorising others when I was a child because when she saw me she always left them alone, I don't know why I am quite placid but I hate this bitch and she damn well knows it. I can honestly say I do not have a SINGLE fond memory of my sister at any point, it isnt that I have blocked them out there are none, she was always a bully and a bitch.
One time I saw her actually scurry away in a car park, as an adult, WTH, seriously. She is only brave when the evil witch is standing behind her. I have never said a bad to word to either of them, I have told them the truth but I have never been mean. Guilty consciences are a wonderful thing aren't they. But that was over a decade ago and I cannot imagine they have become any more sane in their travels.
Meanwhile, MNM is still hard at it desperately trying to ensure her status as Mother of The Year. I would love to ask her, and for her to answer in honesty (bwahaha), whether (1) she thinks her life has been a success, (2) was the GOAL to isolate herself from any help and caring she would have received as an elderly woman, (3) whether she would do the same again if she had her life over. The bizarre thing is she was attractive as a young woman, very intelligent, athletic and had enormous parental support, she didn't have to become a gimlet, a hated sad sack of a woman. It is all so, above all, bloody idiotic and self defeating.
Thanks for your insights and intent to educate /help others in their plight and to let us share problems that were never ours to begin with.
This blog subject, MNs and their flying monkeys, is perfectly timed with recent info I'm contending with right now. I'm soaking this info up like a sponge and it's soothing what would have been uncontrollable rage, shame and despair; which, instead, has become, sad wisdom and insight into more family members than I ever thought I'd have such horrific issues with. Every line contains a gem that helps me understand what's going on. Thank you, Lisette; you're like a guardian angel dispensing healing knowledge to us ACONs; and the comments on this page are speaking directly to my current situation which makes me very grateful to all of you who are willing to share your stories and feelings.
ReplyDeleteOoops.. I meant my last comment to go on the Flying Monkeys blog.
ReplyDelete