Anonymous said...
A little update - I went NC several weeks ago.
With each passing day away from the bitch, my vision is become more and more clear. For once I am truly seeing her for what she is, and I am deeply ashamed that I allowed her to remain in the lives of my children for so long. No one should allow their effed-up parents access to their children. HELLO! If you parents are too toxic for you, they are automatically too toxic for your kids!
Although it's challenging for me to compose my thoughts at the moment because my PTSD symptoms are flaring beyond belief, I would still like to attempt to address the "why". Please keep in mind that I'm still trying to figure out what the hell I was thinking, so I'll share with you what I know so far.
When I first made the decision to allow my mother into my life as an adult, I wanted to give her another chance. I thought that the things that she did to me when I was young were mistakes and that she would never do that sort of thing again. I had an image in my head of her being a real mother for once, a grandmother to my kids, and that we would all be a big happy family.
She annoyed the hell out of me shortly after moving in, but my kids seemed happy with her. She didn't hit them, yell at them, or do any of the abusive things that she did to me. In my mind, she only got on my nerves, but since my kids were happy, I thought I'd suck it up and try to get along with her. I tried my best, even going as far as purchasing so many books on communication, studying them at length, and then applying what I learned. I truly believed that our problems stemmed from a lack of good communication, and I was determined to *fix* it.
Despite using a very validating, non-threatening form of communication, she managed to twist around whatever I said and slap me with it. Sometimes she denied that some events happened at all. She told me that I was crazy, delusional, a liar, and too secretive...I believed it. Something happened to me during this time. The world became fuzzy; I began feeling like nothing was real; I was a passenger in my own body, sometimes feeling as if I was watching my own life on a movie screen. (I've recently come to realize that these were dissociative episodes) The thing is that I was gaslit from here to hell and felt totally out of control. My thought at that time was that I was crazy and maybe the best thing that I could do for my kids was to stay away from them.
As time went on, my eyes began to open. I began to hear things like, "I would love to let you do that, but Mommy Dearest said no, so we'll just stay home today." There was an incident where I told my daughter that she could not have a second piece of cake. My mother opened the container, took out a piece of cake and handed it to her saying, "Here you go." After that, she just looked at me like what are you going to do about it? Not wanting to cuss her out in front of the kids, I remained silent.
One of the incidents that came up right before I asked her to leave was when I discovered letters from inmates on death row in my mail box. Using my *good* communication skills, I approached her very gently, saying something like, "I feel uncomfortable with inmates having this address. Could you possibly use a P.O. box instead?" She flew into a rage, throwing the bowl that she was holding across the room. "You're not going to f*cking control ME!!! They're on DEATH ROW! How the f*ck are they going to come here?!!" Still calm, I held my ground, and said, "Listen, I'm not trying to control you, but you need to realize that there are little girls in this house. What if one of the inmates has a friend or relative who wants to pay us a visit? I'm just not comfortable." I hardly remember what she said after that, but she was still screaming. I lost it and screamed back, "These are the rules of MY house and if you don't like it, you can get the f*ck out!" She started crying and made me feel horrible for being so mean and unreasonable, so I ended up apologizing for my part in this and she ended up staying...By the way, every once in a while, I still receive letters from inmates from all over the U.S. - apparently they passed my address around.
Shortly after this, I began growing increasingly tired of her b.s., so I pulled back and started keeping to myself. This pissed her off royally, so to teach me a lesson, she cornered my husband outside and tried to get him on her side. She also tried to convince him that I was a horrible person and told him that she was surprised that he would settle for someone like me.
That was the end of it for her. My husband came to me and said, "This bitch has to go. Any mother who would say that crap about her own daughter is no good and I don't want her in my house." So, I asked her to leave. And as I previously told you, she did leave...with my kids. She also left a scathing letter here claiming that she was running because she was in fear for her safety and that my kids were in danger of being neglected or abused if they were left with me. Funny thing is that I have subsequent emails from her contradicting herself. She claims that she took them because they "wanted to go." She actually ran with them to a homeless shelter, where she stayed for about a month. After that, she went on to a nasty apartment in a very seedy section of town. (I live in an upper middle class area, so my kids had never seen anything like this). When they came back, they were dirty in appearance and both had lice.
My kids have suffered emotionally because of my mother; one more than the other. My oldest is having difficulty coping, and is displaying NPD traits herself. For this, she is receiving intensive mental health services, and only time will tell if she ends up becoming a full-blown narcissist. Best case scenario, she is displaying traits that she picked up from my mother, much like fleas that can be picked up from a dog. Maybe a few years of 'flea baths' will cleanse her enough for her to become a functional adult.
I'm planning on moving to another area to give myself a chance to live for once. Up until now, all I have been doing is merely surviving.
I'm planning on moving to another area to give myself a chance to live for once. Up until now, all I have been doing is merely surviving.
I feel so ashamed that I exposed my kids to this. I am still in shock that I didn't recognize my mother's inappropriate behavior for what it was, and put a stop to this much, much sooner. I have to live with the fact that I didn't protect them from this monster every single day of my life, just as they have to live with their own mental scars that developed as a direct result of being exposed to this.
I still receive letters from my mother which are laced with covert threats, distorted facts, and FOG-inducing statements.
I still receive letters from my mother which are laced with covert threats, distorted facts, and FOG-inducing statements.
Fuck her! SHE should read THIS:
I hate the fucking bitch from the bottom of whatever is left of my soul. My whole life, she has tried to destroy me, then she moved on to my children.
When that bitch kicks the bucket, I’ll be shipping a nice bottle of champagne to my friends (only the ACONs) so that we can toast the world being minus one evil-ass MN!!
The bitch took off with your kids? What makes these people think they can do any thing they can dream up.
ReplyDeleteWhen my mother takes her dirt nap, I am going to pour a bottle of single malt scotch on her grave.
I will be passing it through my bladder first.
"The bitch took off with your kids? What makes these people think they can do any thing they can dream up."
ReplyDelete'Cause they're deluded and believe their bullshit so hard & so desperately that all too often normal people think there MUST be something to it and play along long enough for the crazy f*kerz to cause some serious damage. Unfortunately this only encourages them and teaches them to try the same tactics all over again.
These MNs have mastered the art of deception. They are highly skilled at lying, conning, manipulating, mind control, and "playing others" while keeping-up a FALSE front. It's how they operate in this world; it's an AUTOMATIC second nature to them. They know no other way, and they're damn good at it because they've been practicing since birth. They lack normal human feelings and a conscience... so in order to compensate for those lacks, and hide in plain sight, they develop other skills... that's where mind-control, and manipulation comes in. These freaks are rarely held accountable because they are so devious, so cunning and so calculating. The lengths they go to, to cover their tracks are remarkable. Their crimes are outrageous, but so is their post-abuse cover-up. No normal person could ever conceive of just how crafty they are... so yes, people think there MUST be something to it. It's a lot easier for people to believe the lies of a master manipulator than wrap their head around what these creatures are truly capable of. The victim always suffers. Not only at the hands of the MN, but at the hands of the guilty bystanders who are too damn stupid, lazy, and gullible to question horse shit! And, if the MN's highly tuned senses leads them to believe that someone might be on to them, they simply destroy that person's credibility in advance.
ReplyDeleteI hate to say it, but MNs understand HUMAN nature and they EXPLOIT IT. They are good at the game... hell, they invented the game! And the whole damn world needs to get a grip, wise-up and learn what makes these freaks tick and STOP these mother f*ckers BEFORE they cause harm!
Anon story #3, you have nothing to be ashamed about. Some say that we stay because it is denial and that we were being co dependent but I disagree... I wasn't in denial or being co dependent, I was just plain ignorant.
ReplyDeleteI blamed myself for everything because they screw with your head like that.I was in a state of mass confusion.Like other people have said before, they brainwash you.They are highly munipulative and cunning people. It took me awhile in life to realize what I was dealing with.
The depth of their depravity still blows my mind...
"I hate to say it, but MNs understand HUMAN nature and they EXPLOIT IT. They are good at the game... hell, they invented the game! And the whole damn world needs to get a grip, wise-up and learn what makes these freaks tick and STOP these mother f*ckers BEFORE they cause harm!"
ReplyDeleteThey can "understand" human nature only at an intellectual level. There is very little subjective overlap between their emotional range and that of the average human so they cannot relate to it or have much of a deeper intuitive grasp.
However, one doesn't have to be able to relate to something or someone to learn how to manipulate their behavior. All too often people get so caught up in the experience of their emotions that they aren't very cognizant of their behavioral responses to them, let alone the situational implications of such responses. MNs manipulate this in much the same way a street magician manipulates normal habits of perception.
All psychopaths/MNs are doing is employing psychological slight of hand. Like a magician's tricks their manipulation can seem very mystifying until you understand exactly how they pull off their tricks. I'll try to give what I HOPE is helpful advice based upon my own personal experience:
[1] Know thyself. Your most important defense is a heightened self-awareness. Be mindful of your emotional state from moment to moment and make sure you've a solid understanding of what makes you tick and how you're "ticking". A good way to cultivate this skill is to practice deep introspection on a frequent basis.
I've always been a big daydreamer ever since I was a kid -- to the point where I'm often more aware of my internal space than my external environment. This ended up coming in handy down the line when I've gotten into situations where I found myself dealing with an emotional manipulator. If you've cultivated deep and pervasive awareness of your inner space it makes it very difficult for someone to go in there attempting to systematically muck about without you quickly catching on to it.
[2] Have possession of yourself. You can have all the awareness you want of your emotions but if you've poor impulse control you'll still be completely at the mercy of someone whose learned how to push even one of your buttons. What it all really comes down to is plain old discipline -- strength of will. This is the one and only kind of power that a person can truly possess and that is control of one's "self". The less self possession you have the more akin you are to a stimulus-response bot; such a person is a manipulator's wetdream. Even an adult with a higher than average IQ can be at the mercy of a dull witted & manipulative child if they lack solid control of their emotions.
[3] Be aware of others. Another major factor that comes into play is your intuitive and intellectual understanding of the person(s) you're interacting with. This includes not only having knowledge of their intellectual capability, beliefs, and knowledge but knowing the cut of their jib -- the quality and general feel of their character. Pay attention to the individual's behavior and take mental note of any discernible patterns; lend greater credence to what they DO than what they SAY. If said individual's verbal professions are not even remotely in line with their behavior you can assume, at the very least, that they are full of shit and treat them accordingly.
Combine the such knowledge with a sufficient level of self-awareness/control and you can not only tell that the individual is manipulating you but also be able to have a solid sense of how they're doing it and toward what end. This also can give you a decent window into their own mind. If you understand them well enough, you can cut them off at the pass and even turn the tables on them if you so choose. Just keep in mind if you don't have a solid gained a solid sense of your own psychological vulnerabilities and overcome them a maligant WILL play it to the hilt if you allow them to become aware of it. In a very real sense, the weaknesses of others is the sole source of their illusory power.
ReplyDeleteAnother really important thing is that if you've accurately pegged the character of an individual and identified them as a malignant make you you spread word of them to everyone in your social circle. Take a cue from the MNs and do what they *pretend* by actually providing accurate and helpful information on *them*. Give everyone you know and love the heads up.
Don't worry if some people can't bring themselves to believe you initially; eventually, as time wears on and the relevant people interact with the creature and begin to compare notes they will inevitably be subjected to some collective ill will. An MN CANNOT function in an environment where they do no have the good faith of those around them. Fully expose them like a writhing worm under a burning magnifying glass.
MNs thrive most in environments with a critical mass of naive and/or spiritually immature people. Groups of people who do not/cannot trust one another, who are envious, and indifferent to (or even delight in) the ill fortune of others make ideal habitats for sociopathogens. If you find your friends are easily turned on you by the maligning of an malignant then they aren't really your friends and its a sign that you may have a habit of throwing in your lot with shitty people. Adjust accordingly.
Dear Lisette,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your blog! As husband and I sit here alone on this holiday season, his MN parents have stalked us for almost 3 years, the police has failed us, the courts has failed us, the friends we thought we had have failed us, it gives me comfort to know that you through your blog are telling the story of survivors like us, it makes me feel less alone... I wish I could write more but the sadness and depression I'm feeling as of now doesn't let me, I just want to give you a heart felt thank you for all you do. Wishing you the best on this holiday season, may the new year bring all of us the end of our suffering at the hands of this MONSTERS!!!!!
Anon above, that was my experience as well. You know, people who have not experienced a MNparent don't "get it." They seem to think there's all kinds of protection out there for us. HA! Were it so. Were the perp anyone but a family member perhaps we'd find some respite from these monsters. They know just how far to push it, how to cover their tracks etc. Above all, it's a form of absolute terrorism: They strike at will in a variety of ways which one can not anticipate and consequently, even the steps we've taken to protect ourselves end up being reactive despite our best attempts at being pro-active. Governments have massive reserves to attempt to thwart terrorists and even they are not always successful. As individuals, we are not always successful either. But that doesn't keep us from trying. The real world of MNs and their terrorist tactics is far more treacherous than all the theoretical "takes" can possibly account for and consequently we need to be aware without the awareness overwhelming our daily lives. At least that worked for me. Ultimately, people who have no fear of anyone/anything have no restraints, plan their attacks at their leisure and implement them at their discretion.
ReplyDeleteHang in there, get on with your lives to the best of your ability and please try not to beat yourselves up over what you "should know/should do." You are absolutely the best judge of your particular situation. And "blaming the victim" for what they did or failed to do (as if we should some how be capable of seeing the future MN tactics) just isn't helpful minimally and maximally more injurious yet.
Anon's story is the absolute embodiment of what happens growing up with an MNmother: Trauma Bonding, Stockholm Syndrome, gaslighting, absolute power and control over their subjects etc. Anon, I agree: You have not *one* thing to be ashamed of. We lacked information, resources etc. and those "resources" that are in place are unfortunately piss poor at assisting us. So, we'll help one another and we'll ALL get through this.
I'm also wishing my fellow MN "targets" a year of continuing personal safety-and some semblance of peace in knowing you're not alone. At all.
Practical “tips” about dealing with these predators (as seen in books like: In Sheep’s Clothing, Without Conscience, A Sociopath Next Door – to name a few) are fine if you’re an adult who wants to arm and protect yourself from highly manipulative “people.” But what of the children who grew-up under the care of these master manipulators? These helpful “tips” are a moot point.
ReplyDeleteFor example: Know thyself.
It goes without saying that the MN parent’s intent is to pulverize the child’s sense of “self” and “awareness” of reality. Our highly attuned senses and perceptions threatened the MN. So they gaslit us from here to hell, planted seeds of doubt in our minds so we didn’t trust our intuition, and brainwashed us into believing there is something wrong with us for having independent thoughts and feelings. MN parents employ terrorist tactics to instill fear, confusion, shame, isolation and emotional and psychological distress. Their goal is absolute control over the child. They do everything they can to DESTROY a child’s “separate” identity and “self”- confidence. NO child can defend themselves against that. And NO child escapes unscathed. It takes years to undo the destruction that the MNs create in our hearts and minds.
For example; I consider myself to be highly sensitive, highly perceptive, incredibly introspective, and highly attuned to my environment and everything in it. These are survival skills that I honed growing-up in a predatory environment, but these are the EXACT same skills that the predators undermined every chance they got.
I had teachers who told me: “You see, and understand more than the other kids.” This wasn’t about science or math… this was about understanding group dynamics, individuals and my environment. So yeah. I had the uncanny ability to spot a fraudster a mile away, BUT despite my abilities to discern, I continually doubted what I intuitively sensed because I still had to battle the brain-washing: What I think is wrong, what I feel is wrong, I’m too sensitive blah, blah, blah.
It doesn’t matter how strong, how smart, or how emotionally stable you are… if you’ve been programmed since a young child to doubt your good judgement, thoughts, and feelings then you’ve got to undo that programming. ACONs don’t walk out into the world clear headed, and strong… we are thrust out into the world disoriented. And those of us who have lived with this fog, survived it, and come out the other end know ourselves a hell of a lot better than the average person.
ACONs don’t need tips on how to deal with predators. We know damn well how they operate – we’ve lived it. All we needed was accessible information to understand that our instincts were right and the brainwashing was wrong; that it wasn’t our fault, and we aren’t the defective ones… THEY ARE. We connect the dots, slap a label on the MN insanity and feel relief at knowing we are not alone.
Throughout their wretched lives, MN parents exploit the mental and emotional state that THEY created in their children (solely for THEIR benefit). AND, they exploit the role of “parent” not only to their victims (their children) but the world at large. It is because the predator is the target’s “mother” that she can get away with psychological violence, criminal stalking and harassment for 2 decades. It is because it is the target’s “mother” and “grandmother” that she can kidnap children, and hold them for ransom without be sent to jail. WTF?!
It’s the rest of the world who lives in utter denial that these dangerous predators exist and they come in the disguise of mother, father, sister, and brother – “family.” It is the rest of the world that needs to learn how they operate and get their heads out of their asses. And only when everyone else wises-up, and assigns the same set of standards to someone’s “mother” that they do to other perpetrators, will us ACONs and our loved ones stand a fighting chance at receiving the support and protection we NEED and are ENTITLED to.
I think that when you feel hatred and a need for revenge, you're still in their control.
ReplyDeleteLisa had a good point. You don't need to do anything. Just do whatever you feel like, don't let them bother you. And if they are in your way, take the easiest way: walk around them and if this is not possible: 'remove' them. As long as you don't let them get to you, it's just a lump of organic matter. Real nasty vile matter.
-S
Jesus, your mom is hilarious and off her fucking rocker. Goddamn, she is nothing compared to you. She is not even one bit like you.
ReplyDeleteI'd see it this way, in your previous situation: If I had to pick between two people getting to have my kids, me or psycho bitch mom, I think I would pick me. You are so much better than her, why let her win in this fight? Don't pull away from your kids. Even if you think you're a bad mom, you know you can't be worse than crazy bitch over there. For that reason alone, the saner one has to take over the reins. You can't show your kids perfect, but you can show them better than THIS. Wouldn't you want them to at least see that?
Of course you're shocked, I'd be shocked too if I had just figured out my mom was an evil bitch.
Your oldest is displaying NPD traits herself (himself)? Dang, how long were they gone for?! And what is intensive mental health services? That doesn't sound very soothing. Make sure they aren't treating her like a lab rat, poking and prodding and 'analyzing'. I think too much therapy and too many check-ins with the doctor at a young age can be really damaging for kids. I read this one story about this woman who as a little girl, she was taken to psychologists since as far back as she could remember, and the doctors would just sit her down and jot down notes about "Displays empathy for those she feels are underdogs because she believes she is also an outsider." It was just awful. Don't ever let anyone analyze your kids like that.
You might have made mistakes, hurt yourself and others, but you will do better next time. You can do better now. You know what you did and you will do better.
You're better than your mom, that's for sure.
- S,
ReplyDeleteI don't want to dignify your comment with a response, except to ask: Does the "S" stand for stupid?
Lisette, Thank you for your comment regarding the dynamics of growing up with a MNparent/mother. As adults, we can see the dynamics very clearly; as children we had no choice and were essentially at the mercy of the MN parent.
ReplyDeleteI watch my cat "toy" with a mouse. That's her DNA at work. She's a sentinent being, but not a human being. She sees that mouse as prey and food. That mouse is her "feed," and she will kill it because that's what the cat does. I watch the wild life in my back yard here in the middle of no where....the moms teach their young. I have NEVER seen a "wild" animal place a paw/feather, what ever on their off-spring. I've never seen any animal rage or abuse their off-spring. They teach. They "show and tell."
I love watching the wild world for this reason. The season to learn is short but I've never seen a wild animal abuse their off-spring in ANY way.
That's a whole lot more than my experience with my terrorist MNmother ever demonstrated.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteAnimals also rigorously guard and protect their off-spring from danger... not so the MN parent. Indeed, we needed protection from them. We were never safe under their malignant rule.
"It’s the rest of the world who lives in utter denial that these dangerous predators exist and they come in the disguise of mother, father, sister, and brother – “family.” It is the rest of the world that needs to learn how they operate and get their heads out of their asses. And only when everyone else wises-up, and assigns the same set of standards to someone’s 'mother' that they do to other perpetrators, will us ACONs and our loved ones stand a fighting chance at receiving the support and protection we NEED and are ENTITLED to."
ReplyDeleteYou're absolutely right. The bulk of the problem lies really with the world at large. If society had its collective act together there would be no refuge for monstrosities like the ones you and other ACONs have been forced to live under. This is all the more reason why people like you who KNOW evil firsthand need to draw on your inner resources, and each other, to effectively deal with the threat at hand.
TBH, I can hardly imagine what it’s like to be held prisoner and deliberately brainwashed from infancy by someone who simply hates me for my virtues – for simply *existing*. But the fact of the matter is that, for all their efforts, you're still standing. You had the mental strength to survive even as a child in thrall to monsters and now you're an independent adult with the full presence of mind to see them for what they are. Despite the attempted brainwashing and the emotional scars they left they could not destroy your gifts, your talents or your strength of spirit. YOU are the strong one. All they've really succeed in doing is sowing the seeds of bitterness and vengeance in the heart of a child whose grown to be an insightful and very capable adult. You've been given a bitter, firsthand education on the nature of evil which has provided you a degree of perspective that most among us do not have. You've taken that bitter experience and used it to help educate and validate others out there who've suffered similar experiences. This is all well and good but I get the impression that, for you at least, that may not be enough.
The outrage you feel at the injustices you've seen in the lives of others and your own is palpable just from reading a few of your responses. Your anger and outrage are there for a reason and their purpose is not to indefinitely smolder within you as resentment. Use it. Act on it. You say you've a good intuitive grasp of group dynamics? Excellent. *Use that to your advantage*. You've even communicated that you've perceived your own MN-sister's many vulnerabilities and ways you could exploit them. Wonderful. *Do it*.
Lisette, your anger is totally justified, but it is very easy for one to let that anger lash out towards people who haven’t really earned it. I don’t think Lisa or Anonymous-“S” meant to judge or invalidate the experiences you and others have undergone. They were trying to provide encouragement not condescension. Be angry at the injustices and those who perpetrated them but try not to let that anger disproportionately magnify minor annoyances at the ignorance of others. If they don’t ‘get it’ it’s not that big a deal. As far’s I can tell, there was no ill-intent in their comments and, truth be told, the opinions of others don’t make a damn bit of difference to the reality of *YOUR* experiences anyway.
ReplyDeletePerhaps it’s time you stopped stewing in resentment at the wrongs done and take exacting vengeance. Embrace the hatred sown in you since childhood and directed it back towards its source. Be cunning. Be ruthless. Be merciless. But, most of all, retain your wisdom, compassion for the innocent, and presence of mind while channeling the caustic & volatile fire of malice against the monsters who've earned it. Like all fire it is a dangerous tool. It has the power to warp one’s perception, discharge toward inappropriate targets, and even harm the soul of its wielder.
Lisette, your writings have become my bible, as i came from a family of these freaks, and have known many in my life, as you have.
ReplyDeleteJust the other day i had a similar thought about how horrible it is to be a child in a family that you have to be afraid of, and no one to protect you from anything. And then a thought came to me, animals know better and are more protective of their young. But then in the animal kingdom, there are misfits of nature that eat their young once they are born. This must surely be the narcissistic, sociopathic version of their species, as is the evil humans that have mistakenly called themselves parents!!
Reading your above post made me think of this.
If you are a normal person, the narcissistic/sociopathic/abusive, so called family, feel it is their duty to destroy every last ounce of normalacy in your body, with any means possible. I have always thought Alfred Hitchcock must have surely known the same kind of people. His stories of how the bad guys alway get it in the end, must have been some type of therapy for him in a world where it seems there is very little justice against these freaks!!!!!
Kimani,
ReplyDeleteAs for my response to Lisa's comment, I removed it... only because it was written by Lisa, and I've decided to put faith in her intentions... albeit, intentions that appear to be a little misguided.
As for your most recent comments, presumptuous claims about me, and unsolicited *advice*...Well. I'm not going to let the ignorance (and might I add "arrogance") of others bother me.
Sorry if I overstepped. I'll keep the advice to myself.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest regret that I have is allowing my children near the MN in the family. I never could have guessed in a million years that the MN would do what she did. I learned my lesson. My oldest has not been near MN since she was 3.5 and my next two children hardly even know her. I will be buying a bottle of champaign on the day that she passes away. I hope she rests in Peace....Soon.
ReplyDeleteLisette, Your comments on how these phycos screw with our minds when we grow up in this kind of enviroment is dead on. People don't get this because they are either narcs themselves and are covering for people who are just like them or they are just plain stupid and need to shut the h#ll up...
ReplyDeleteIt takes a life time of deprogramming what has been done to us for many.... many freaking years.That's because the brainwashing started when we were old enough to talk and went on well after we became legal adults. Not only that, many people like myself have to sit by and watch this happen to sibs kids because the sibs are narcs themselves.So the narcs evil thinking and ways will be passed on to the next generation. So the heartache for me really never ends.
Kimani,
ReplyDeleteNot a problem. A boundary needed to be set.
Anonymous,
I'm glad that you're keeping yourself and your children safely distanced from the MN. It really is amazing that no matter how diabolical we know these MNs to be, they still shock us with their crazy stunts. I guess it's because we're normal, and we could never conceive of how low they can go. I too hope for the MNs to rest in peace... Soon.
Anonymous (above),
Yup. The legacy of narcissism does really get passed down from one generation to the next. I would find that a hard thing to witness. My MN parents were so toxic that they effectively wiped-out the next generation. They had three kids, and none of us had children of our own. MN parent's roots were so weak and diseased that they killed the family tree.
Lisa, I just wanted to clarify something - When I wrote this, I was writing about things that took place over a span of years. The abduction of my children took place years ago, and the thought that my kids would be better off without me happened several years before that...I love my kids more than anything, and I always have. When I felt that I should back away from them, it was only because I thought that I was crazy. I didn't know about gaslighting, manipulation, or any of the other covert methods of abuse that my mother employed since the time I was a small child...Much has changed - I know know that my mother is a MN; this was not my fault; I'm not crazy; and my kids are better off with me. We have no contact with my mother now, and life is better than ever.
ReplyDeleteMy purpose in putting this out there was threefold: I wanted to help others in similar situations not feel so alone. Secondly, I wanted people to understand how brainwashed a person can become from dealing with a monster like this. Thirdly, I was forced into silence for so many years that I have a desire to rebel now. I have no reason to be silent, and I won't be any longer. The burden of shame and guilt that I have carried so long doesn't belong to me; it belongs to my evil-ass mother.
Lisette, Thank you for giving me a voice. :)
q1605 "When my mother takes her dirt nap, I am going to pour a bottle of single malt scotch on her grave.
I will be passing it through my bladder first."
LMAO!!! I'm laughing so hard there are tears in my eyes! Than you for that!!!
Anon from the blog post
"As for my response to Lisa's comment, I removed it... only because it was written by Lisa, and I've decided to put faith in her intentions... albeit, intentions that appear to be a little misguided."
ReplyDeleteHaha, thanks, I guess! *thumbs up
Anon, I see. Yeah, I was reacting to the story. Sounds like you've got your shit together now and are happier now. Good ending! For that part, at least. That's how the story goes, thinking you're stupid to realizing you were right all along. Understanding crazy sure is something. Takes a long time, too. Probably something I'll be working towards for the rest of my life.
ReplyDeleteSince it is Christmas time, I want to say that Jesus did not say we should organize our lives around our families, but to do the opposite, to follow him. I think he meant leave the crap behind and follow what is True as well.
ReplyDeleteI am going out on a limb here, I know it. But I think families can be like cults, parents acting like little gods. They can be a significant threat to Truth. They put people in direct conflict between right and wrong, since family and especially MN's dictate false realities to unsuspecting and innocent children who feel they must deny what they see and hear to avoid abandonment and even torture.
Lisette, I thought I was the only one who passed on having a child because of their N parent. Bringing an innocent into her sphere of influence was unthinkable. I pictured her on the phone telling people how it looked nothing like me. How it can't be mine.
ReplyDeleteI made a choice to get fixed. I saw it through. And at that time I would have told you my mother is an odd, but otherwise nice enough woman.
Yet I jumped at the first opportunity that presented itself to get snipped. So before all the dust up between me and her that led to NC. Before I had ever heard of NPD. My instinct was telling me not to bring a kid into that family.
Lisa- Yes. Understanding crazy is a long road. That's why they call it crazy. Don't spend the bulk of your life trying to figure it out. Take it on faith that crazy is as crazy does, and you can't fix it. Save your altruism for people that won't waste it. Bestowing goodwill to your mother is just pissing in the wind.
q1605,
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting about our gut instinct to not want to bring an innocent soul into the sphere of the MN parent/family. The toxic sacks of shit had no problem abusing me, exploiting me and discarding me so there was no way in hell I would have let them near anyone dear to me. And it wasn't so much about bringing a kid into that family (that wouldn't have happened)... it was more about the message I received from MN parents about children and family: marriage and family is prison, and children are a miserable burden. I truly feared, for a very long time, that I might hate my child as much as my mother hated me, and I didn't want to risk it. The only mothering I knew was outright contempt for the child just for existing. It took me a long time to deprogramme from that. I also thought marriage and family = DEATH. I literally thought if you get married and have kids you've got one foot in the grave. My MN parents sent their kids a very strong message... THAT'S why they have no grandchildren. What's worse is that they seeth with contempt at their children because they have no grandchildren, and this makes THEM look bad. They continue to believe there's something wrong with us... At least, that's what they tell inquiring relatives. Well, there is something wrong with my sister, and I'm relieved she never brought a demon spawn, or an innocent soul to abuse into this world.
If I were to list the reasons I side stepped having kids tomorrow, I would give a completely different rational. I just know that my motivations are filtered through some warped lens installed by my parents.
ReplyDeleteMy father spent his adult life taking one step forward and two steps back. She always put the kibosh on any progress he had going.
The net effect for me was not trusting good times. I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. With her around it always did. It's not so much her actions toward me or my sister. It was her destabilizing effect on all of us.
To me a run of good luck equaled "when is shit going to hit the fan"
If my operating system is so fucked up that I can never relax and be comfortable with only me to provide for, I am not going to add all the variables a child brings into the equation.
q1605,
ReplyDeleteI hear that. I can relate to everything you wrote... motivations filtered through some warped lens installed by my parents... the destabilizing effects they had on my trust in family, and the role of parent... all my life being in a state of waiting for the other shoe to drop... and never feeling safe and relaxed enough to handle more than taking care of my basic needs on a day to day.
YES! That's exactly it! "When is the shit gonna hit the fan?" I'm sure those kinds of experiences colored my ability to truly enjoy the better times-or at least those times when the monster appeared to be "resting." I learned to NEVER get my hopes up that these periods of relative peace would last... I was just protecting myself/shoring up for the next round of BS or frank terror.
ReplyDeleteWhen I look back on growing up the overwhelming feelings are fear, anxiety, confusion and powerlessness. At best it was like being a piece of furniture: Now placed "here," now moved over "there." Don't move, don't make a sound. Stay out of the house as much as possible. Avoid being in kicking, hitting, hair-pulling "range." Don't turn your back. Come when called. Don't cry. Don't ever show any emotion except "neutral." Don't ask for anything.
And don't EVER disclose ANYTHING about your inner world. It'll be fashioned into an IED somewhere down the road by the bitch who'll detonate it at her leisure, when I wasn't expecting it and when I was most in need of help.
Even though I grew up in a metro area, I can not travel to large cities and spend much time there now. It's as if I've lost the "filter" that allows others to ignore the mundane and non-threatening stimuli (lights, lots of people, sirens etc.) and feel overwhelmed by all that makes a city just that. I don't have PTSD but I am still always situationally aware in ways that others don't seem to be.....waitin' for the shit to hit the fan....
Thanks. I never made that connection.
There is some well intentioned writing in these comments. I see common sense advice about pooling mental faculties, and focusing wherewithal. Just meet N parents head on and beat the narcissist at their own game.
ReplyDeleteProblem is this is not a contest with a defined goal. There aren't any rules to be adhered to. And they have no concrete motivations for what they do.
So taking these bastards on is to be fighting for what? Using what tactics? And to what end?
And the more important question. Why?
She could have just had an abortion.
They didn't really steal the things it takes to have a healthy psyche. We were not born whole and then them chip our wholeness away.
We were born with the same blank slate as others and launched without a map.
No matter how perfectly we project the illusion of being a tightly wrapped person, it just isn't real.
No matter how convincing we are to others, and how well we convince ourselves, we will never feel the same self assurance that others feel.
And you can't unite the world to get behind a cause they don't give a shit about. Unless people have lived with these freaks, they won't get it. And they don't want to get it.
You can not frame a house and pour the foundation under it later.
I can relate so much to the above post that I could have just about written it myself...I have spent my entire life waiting for the shit to hit the fan, and although I'm NC with my evil mother now, somehow I'm still waiting. I guess it's the PTSD that keeps me so jumpy and always looking over my shoulder - I can't really relax. I have a hard time being in places where there is a lot going on, so I have to plan my trips accordingly, mostly going to quiet, remote areas. What I wouldn't give to be "normal" for once in my life. I would love to know what it feels like to get up and do what I need to do sans the ten ton emotional burden that I lug around every single day of my life.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about any of the other posters here, but I also have difficulty with people just being nice to me. It's hard to explain but it's painful in a way - any kind act, no matter how small, can reduce me to a pool of tears. On a conscious level, I can say that I'm a good person who is worthy of kindness, but somewhere deep inside, perhaps unconsciously, I must believe the message that was drilled into my head: "You are worthless."
Anon from the blog post
No bully has any concrete motivation for what they do... that doesn't mean they shouldn't be deterred. I doubt any of us ACONs consider ourselves a "cause"... I doubt any victim of bullying considers themselves a cause. If there is a cause at all, it's about heightened public awareness of these predators. Just the same way that bullying in schools is now taken seriously. But how many tortured children had to commit suicide before that happened? It takes countless tragedies for people to be forced to recognize what has always existed. Why does it have to come to this? Yeah. People don't give a shit unless it happens to them, or it's not PC to look the other way. Maybe one day a dangerous MN "mother" will be common knowledge and when she goes to abduct her grandchildren an amber alert will be issued, and the story will make national news; instead of letting the kid's parents fend for themselves because it's their "mother" and the children's "grandmother."
ReplyDeleteLisette. I get what you are saying. They should be taken to task.
ReplyDeleteI lashed out at my mother like I never thought I could. When I was in my fifties.
By the time we start understanding they are sick it is too late. There were red flags about my mothers behavior all along. Running wild during the day. Hell the fucking bitch and her boyfriend killed a guy. After her trial we left the court room and went home. Where she continued her insanity unabated.
Kids can't fight an N head on. Adults are told to boot strap it.
Oh boo hoo my mommie didn't love me enough.
I see a head line at least once a month about a mother killing her kids.
All I hear about it is a collective gasp of better thee than me.
q1605,
ReplyDeleteSo true. the collective gasp of better thee than me. There are headlines alright, AFTER someone winds up dead. It's those red flags warning others that children aren't safe that people should be obliged to act on. Kids can't do it, but adults can. But for some reason "family" is a scared cult that gets to play by its own rules.
Yeah. As adults we're told to boot strap it, and we do. We're collectively shamed for still talking about it after all these years. It's like we're combat soldiers who have finally returned home and can't talk about the atrocities of war. Not an easy burden to bear.
q1605 and Lisette, 100% agreed.
ReplyDeleteA little change of topic here: I was reading through all of the comments on the last three blog posts, and had a few thoughts that I wanted to share to address the "put on your big girl panties" type of responses. This is primarily for the people who have not grown up with a MN for a parent, who can not possibly understand what this is like.
Suppose you were dropped off as a baby in the woods with apes, where you were raised your entire life. Thirty years later, as an adult, you decided that living in the woods wasn't working for you, so you left to live among fellow humans. A nice writer decided to blog your story while you were still adjusting to your new life as a "normal" human being, and my comment to you is as follows: Please, no more of this "poor me" stuff! Tell those apes to get the fuck out of your life, and stop eating bananas three times a day!!! Grab a fork and knife along with other food and eat like the rest of us do!!! Have possession of yourself. You can have all the awareness you want but if you've poor impulse control you'll still be scratching your armpits and crotch in public!!! What it all really comes down to is plain old discipline -- strength of will...
Anon from the blog post
Anon from the blog post,
ReplyDeleteI too can get really emotional at the kindness of others. Especially if they say nice things about me to me. I'm just not used to that. I'm used to contempt and indifference. N parents make a concentrated effort to let you know that you don't matter. They don't nurture, they compete. So when people let me know I matter, and that they care, it almost makes me uncomfortable. I know I deserve it, but it's not the norm. And in some ways I can be very suspicious of it. It sucks that normal, kind, compassionate human behaviour is deeply rooted in us as the exception not the rule.
Anon from the blog post,
ReplyDeleteAwesome analogy! It's all about discipline, impulse control, and strength of will is it?! HA! It has nothing to do with plain old SURVIVAL, and adjusting to a world we aren't accustomed to??
Nicely put!
I'm going to go make myself a banana smoothie... I'm still adjusting, but have learned to use kitchen utensils. Oops sorry. I shouldn't have scratched my crotch... I guess it's poor impulse control. I'm still working on my strength of will.
The people who tell us to pull up our boot straps are those who have no empathy for others.I've had people who don't know me or my situation come at me with the most meanest comments.One b**** said to me(as well as a narc family member on the other side of the family)"...know wonder why your family doesn't want to talk to you." When in fact, I'm the one who decided on nc. Church people think that you just need a Bible study. Ya, pharasee that'll "fix" me...
ReplyDeleteThanks, Lisette. Although I wouldn't wish this experience on anyone (other than my evil-ass mother), it's nice to not feel so alone. I'm getting a little better with people being nice to me, but I have a LONG way to go. Not too long ago, a friend of mine sent me a gift. She's an award-winning crocheter, and sent me an item that she made. I cried when I opened the package - the thought that someone would think enough of me to even bother doing something like this was too much to bear...My own mother treated me like shit my whole life, yet here's a woman who I've not known that long doing something nice for me just because she wanted to? Brain.does.not.compute.
ReplyDeleteEnjoy your banana smoothie while practicing with your utensils AND scratching your crotch. You'll find that strength of will eventually! LMAO!!!
Anon from the blog post AKA The ape
Tell those apes to get the fuck out of your life, and stop eating bananas three times a day!!!
ReplyDeleteI see you have met my mother. She peels them with her feet.
This an unpopular stance but trust me. I don't believe in deterrence. I believe in eradication. You'll never see me lighten up on an N. I just don't see a foothold to get over on them. They are such effective chameleons that they always put doubt in the minds of the powers that be.
And the prospect of them fouling their own nest if left to their own devices?
They are too delusional to notice.
Get your stinkin' paws off me you damn dirty ape!
ReplyDeleteq1605,
I concur, deterrence is next to impossible because they are such effective chameleons. Only the street smart seem to get their number.
That is why I mentioned motive. Knowing why someone does what they do is a good start on dealing with what they do.
ReplyDeleteBut they do and say things that are not based on logic and proportion.
So other than going no contact, it is impossible to take them on proactively.
Our defense is always reactive and that is what keeps us off our balance with them.
A resounding YES!!! to all the above. I never had a chance to have anything BUT "Big Girl Panties" because someone had to be the damn adult here and it sure as hell wasn't my MNmother.
ReplyDeleteIt's oh-so-easy to pontificate about what we "should" have known/done despite the fact we were the KIDS here? REMEMBER? WE grew up in these hells and despite it all, we're still standin.' I think that's quite a testament to our intelligence, tenacity and survival skills. I don't appreciate being preached to as if I'm some sort of moron, lacking any degree of intelligence-never mind experience and as if the "preacher" even has a clue just who it is they're speaking TO.
Frankly, I have every damn "right" to feel as I do and if it's NOT "PC" I don't give a flying f. Anger is a wonderful motivator. And lacking any experience growing up with an MNparent (never mind any degree of genuine knowledge despite what they read/can quote from some book) all I can think is "Wow, you are not only ignorant in the truest sense of the word, you're also so far out of touch with the reality of MNparents here's some cyber Thorazine or Haldol." They work quite successfully for the delusional....however, their efficacy for use with presumptuous, pompous assholes has not been studied.
But clearly I see here there are some "unwitting volunteers!"
Anger is not only a great motivator, it feels good to have some kind of passion about something. The rest of my emotions have gone stale.
ReplyDeleteI would rather hate my mother and dream of throttling her than to isolate and hide myself away.
O.M.G.
ReplyDeleteIn my case, it wasn't inmates on death row, but one inmate not on death row. MIL decided to give our names, address and telephone number to the son of a friend of hers, without asking our permission, of course. MIL decided that we needed to take in a boarder, and so she would make this happen. She told the friend that I spent the days alone at home with our newborn baby, and that we needed money. In her mind, an ex-con with no job was the obvious perfect solution to this imaginary problem.
So it was that she portrayed me as the villain, who was very ungrateful for the help that she was providing, unsolicited, by taking the initiative to solve our (non-existent) cash flow problem by taking in soon-to-be-free prisoners. She refused to say what it was that landed this person in jail, but she knew.
I felt very uncomfortable in our home after that, and feared that the ex-con would show up some day. Such was her world: what new mother wouldn't want a former criminal in the house?
If she was so eager to find this con a place to live, why didn't she invite him into her child-free home? She could have used the money.